iVirtues by Hòa Phan

[Fenrir]

Fenrir, I do get where you're coming from. I get conflicted on whether or not to post their projects in particular but I've been taking a non-discriminatory so far when it comes to updating the forums with the latest playing card projects. Everyone is left to decide whether or not to back but at least on UC, we can be transparent and allow people to make more informed decisions.

I hear you Kevork. I think that's a fair approach but also when we know there is a blatant issue we should prevent it where we can. That being said, it just feels like deja vu discussions every time a new project of his comes up.

What is the blatant issue why this ks should not be posted?

I think everyone else has beaten me to the response and covered off the talking points. I would suggest you to look at his previous projects if you are curious about his existing reputation that appears to be repeating itself.

[JazzBaloo]

The funny thing is that there is more of a case here for defamation than theft if people want to make accusations. Do people take defamation seriously in this case in the same way as they may in others? The general "doesn't matter that the theft was a lie because he is still a pos" is not virtuous.

[GandalfPC]

Defamation is saying something you know to be false. Liable is writing it.

requires “knowing it was false or with reckless disregard for the truth” when written. Here we have neither. People are allowed to share their honest views on someone’s dishonest actions.

[GandalfPC]

Truth = safe.
Opinion = likely safe.
False statements of fact = risky.
A lawsuit from them could backfire, especially if there’s evidence of a deceptive pattern.

People are allowed to wonder, postulate, suspect or identify - false claims they cannot make.

Court requires people to come with “clean hands”

A party seeking relief in court must act fairly and honestly. If they’ve engaged in fraud, deceit, or unethical conduct related to the matter they will be sent packing.

[JazzBaloo]

Claiming theft without proof can be interpreted in different ways. Anyone definitively claiming theft in writing because of reasons other than evidence should be held liable then? Opinions are one thing but accusations of criminal liability are another. Semantics of written or said do not interest me. I'm not a lawyer. In fact I do not believe any charges should be pursued. I also don't believe any responsibility to any wrong doing has been accounted for. If you believe that that was OK to railroad someone with lies because you don't like them then that is your choice.

[GandalfPC]

Anyone claiming theft without proof is certainly exposing themselves to a liable suit - but that becomes less true when the target of said liable lacks the clean hands needed to take it to court.

You need to act right to have your rights respected in court.

I do not think its right to do - and its probably not wise as its not 100% protection - if you push a lie you may burn from it.

I also don’t think he has earned a criminal charge - his level of rip off falls into the buyer beware category not the lock him up category.


Courts know that when internet customers get ticked off they are going to mouth off - and the standard of someone saying something heated is also going to apply - there is going to be a high bar.

[JazzBaloo]

Am I the only one that sees the lie about stolen images as more of a problem than any perceived deceit from the campaign? His level of rip offs is not what I am referring to about not caring for charges to be brought. If you are caring for the backers and their beliefs then you would have to ask each of them what they think before speaking for them. Damages incurred here? I say that this lie of stolen work was more damaging than any scenario you can create for backers and got the job done as intended. You like the words scam and rip off when talking about Phan, who delivers his projects, but are opposed to using those words when people reference someone you favor like Gabbard, who by all metrics at this point in time can be considered a true rip off scam artist. Phan fudges the lines bad but he changes course with attempts to correct and doesn't run away with people's money.

[JazzBaloo]

Sorry for trying to stick it to you with that petty point. I know there is more going on with Brad. Products have been purchased and he didn't run away with money as I had simplified. It's also deflective of me. I understand the Phan hate. I play Devils advocate in a way but I see both sides.

[GandalfPC]

I believe they refer to this:

ROYAL WARRIORS (Canceled) is the subject of an intellectual property dispute and is currently unavailable.

and you can refer to copyright infringement as IP theft - certainly within the bounds.

[th4mo]

Anyone claiming theft without proof is certainly exposing themselves to a liable suit - but that becomes less true when the target of said liable lacks the clean hands needed to take it to court.

You need to act right to have your rights respected in court.

I do not think its right to do - and its probably not wise as its not 100% protection - if you push a lie you may burn from it.

I also don’t think he has earned a criminal charge - his level of rip off falls into the buyer beware category not the lock him up category.


Courts know that when internet customers get ticked off they are going to mouth off - and the standard of someone saying something heated is also going to apply - there is going to be a high bar.

The word you are looking for is LIBEL, not liable. Pretty good explanation otherwise!

Where oh where is Sinjin when we need him...

[Evilgamer]

not to pick any side here but I was curious to see if they posted anything when they canceled it and they did

Dear Valued Backers,

We owe you a heartfelt apology. The iVirtues Playing Cards project did not meet the standards you deserved, especially in our use of purchased stock imagery (from Iryna Zaichenko on https://www.dreamstime.com), even though we modified to fit the deck's overall look, which rightly sparked disappointment. We hear you, community and we take full responsibility.

Our Next Steps:
Halting the current project: We’ve decided to stop the campaign and rethink the design entirely.
Redesigning court cards: Every card will be custom-illustrated, ensuring originality and the artistic depth you expected.
Relaunched soon: We’ll return with a transparent campaign when the designs are completed.

Why This Matters:
You trusted us to create something meaningful, and we failed to honor that trust. This pause is not an end, but a commitment to do better, for you, and for the spirit of the Four Virtues we aimed to celebrate.

For now, thank you for your honesty and patience.

With humility,
The TPPC Team

[GandalfPC]

Fourth times the charm.

[JazzBaloo]

The loud voices that cried theft and shouted obscenities on multiple platforms were enough to break the project. Maybe he'll hire an artist next time or learn how to photoshop/modify AI or stock images in a more meaningful way like other producers/designers have been accepted for.

[JazzBaloo]

I believe they refer to this:

ROYAL WARRIORS (Canceled) is the subject of an intellectual property dispute and is currently unavailable.

and you can refer to copyright infringement as IP theft - certainly within the bounds.

All the initial theft allegations are surrounding this project which in turn led to the Royals project being discussed as well.

[GandalfPC]

He has earned the title “the usual suspect” - so perhaps while jumping the gun, it is understandable.

I would doubt it would earn a lawsuit - but I would prefer people stick to the facts until new facts present and make sure to label rumor or wonderings with the appropriate “allegedly”

[GandalfPC]

This project deserved breaking - and how many times he gets to pull this, promise redemption and do the same is up to each customer. I was out a long time ago - and when I see him do the same I will be one of the voices making sure people know that he has “done it again”.

Should he put up a proper project - labeled properly, not effort or any other metric - he will have changed. And if he keeps it up, he can even walk all the long way back home to acceptance by cold hearts - ones he made cold.

[laitostarr777]

I believe they refer to this:

ROYAL WARRIORS (Canceled) is the subject of an intellectual property dispute and is currently unavailable.

and you can refer to copyright infringement as IP theft - certainly within the bounds.

This project is when we started to realized the true colors of Phan...
The 1st time this project went live, people noticed a LOT of IP theft: Paizo, The Witcher, Assassin's Creed - KS soon have it officially cancelled due to IP dispute
The 2nd time this project went live, there is STILL IP theft: one of the Courts have a shield that is VERY close to its source - the project is voluntarily cancelled
The 3rd time the project went live, and it was successful...

Notice how MANY times of cancellation Phan had - it speaks for themselves...

From here, we soon learned that his past successful projects are decks with stolen stuffs that he got away with...

When his actions on Royal Warriors were busted, Phan wrote an apology to DripDropShuffle52 Facebook group. Dexter being the group's leader give him a heartful apology, along with a few others. I was, too, give him an apology, yet it's "giving him the benefit of the doubt". Turns out, he goes back to his old ways...

He might have a family to provide, but it's not an excuse to earn money through conning

[JazzBaloo]

This project deserved breaking - and how many times he gets to pull this, promise redemption and do the same is up to each customer. I was out a long time ago - and when I see him do the same I will be one of the voices making sure people know that he has “done it again”.

Should he put up a proper project - labeled properly, not effort or any other metric - he will have changed. And if he keeps it up, he can even walk all the long way back home to acceptance by cold hearts - ones he made cold.

Just how detailed was his "collaboration " explained in the KS? I saw it briefly mentioned in passing and if that's so then I chalk it up to misleading advertising, which stinks.

[EndersGame]

I’m not sure why we keep putting up posts with his work. It only serves to draw more attention to it.

Fenrir, I do get where you're coming from. I get conflicted on whether or not to post their projects in particular but I've been taking a non-discriminatory so far when it comes to updating the forums with the latest playing card projects. Everyone is left to decide whether or not to back but at least on UC, we can be transparent and allow people to make more informed decisions.

I just wanted to chime in on this point specifically. I for one think that it is helpful to have threads like this here. It makes the information public, all the details can be laid on the table, and people can make up their own minds about it.

A thread here isn't the equivalent of actively promoting his work, or positively helping his cause as such. In fact, it has just as much potential to affect his reputation negatively. It's just about laying the facts on the table, good and bad, and letting the people decide.

Without threads like this, some of us might remain entirely ignorant. And those looking for information will at least have a place to find what they need to see part of a picture they might otherwise not be aware of.