Apocalyptica Chromatics

[malanthrax]

Any comments welcome even if you hate them.

Good Morning,

First I have to take my hat off to the USPCC. Those guys went to bat for us. We lost our Gargoyle King card to their printer guidelines(gargoyles look too much like devils) but they went to bat for us on the tuck box design and interlaced images and the unique overall look we wanted to go with. Without them in the past month I would have had a stroke.


So we have the Apocalyptica Chromatics Card deck coming up in a week or so on KickStarter. I figured I would throw some of the designs up there for people to slam or like, however they see fit. I know this artstyle won't appeal to all but I have to say we enjoyed making the deck. The artists originally worked on the AfterEarth: The Fall RPG which had a card deck as one of its rewards. Sadly the cost of the deck really inflated our goal so we decided to take all that design and move it to a deck and do the deck first. The deck is a mix of our themes which is technology and magic. We tried to make sure neither side was so insanely over the top that the cards were still playable. Things are in flux in the next couple days so suggestions are welcome.

Our artists are Diego Candia and Boco from artofboco.com. We aimed for an artsyle that would showcase their art without breaking too far out of the deck mold so that people could use them for playing, collecting, and just enjoying the art.

For our first deck we wanted something a bit unique to set us apart so we worked with the artists and a couple cardists at various sites to come up with a chomatic back.
Though we are using USPC I only have the generic tuck here available to me. So I will throw that up for you guys. One thing we did with the card design was to hide some secrets in the back depending on viewing angle, distance, and just overall perception. We wanted something unique.


Here is a rough mockup of our KickStarter picture(rough elements up as the artist puts things together) where you can see we slightly adjusted the Clubs layout for the 4 of clubs. Bicycle logo is currently being reworked to better fit the case and card design.

[CBJ]

so.. I see one pick as a non-bicycle deck

and another pic showing it as a Bicycle branded deck... what's it going to be??

I prefer Bicycle!

[malanthrax]

Sorry CBJ that is explained in my post.
I am at work and didn't have the Bicycle tuck with me.

[CBJ]

I see both pics. I'm just wondering which direction you will be taking it.
With the big Bicycle name on the front of the box.. or without

[malanthrax]

Smacks forehead.
My apologies. The Bicycle logo will be present on the tuck but not in the yellow you see it now. It will be shaded to artistically reflect the tuck and deck better.
I put some disclaimers there. Sorry for the confusion there.

[MagikFingerz]

Very interesting deck.

Things I like - fully custom, innovative pip displays on number cards, the diamond pip design on the ace, thin borders.

Things I don't like - the font used for the index values (too big and wonky), the heart pip (an organ? really?), the spades/clubs pips (can't really tell them apart, looks like ink stains).

[malanthrax]

Thank you for the feedback.

When it comes to the spades and clubs, do you think using the original art would alleviate that?

Font for the numbers. Boy that is a tough one. We have gone back and forth so many times. I appreciate the heads up and will revisit it. We were looking for something to match the fantasy style but perhaps we thought that over wrong. Size of course can be adjusted.

The heart. Hmmm. That is the first time it being an organ has been brought up. We felt it fit the hand drawn art. I will relook at that as well. Thank you very much.

Here are is a smaller design. Thoughts?

[malanthrax]

Here was the original Diamond with smaller index but larger shadows which I personally liked.
And also without any font shadowing.

[neongrey]

I really like the diamonds you've got. I don't know that the font bothers me personally so much.

But, I think the fuzzy look on the spades looks kind of off to me. The hearts being actual hearts, I'm not sure if I like how it fits with the art style you've got so far-- I think the right deck could pull it off, but I'm not sure this is the one for it. I think part of it is that all the pips seem to be in pretty different styles across the suits, and it doesn't give a very unified look.

I'm not a fan of the bigger shadows, it makes it a bit harder to read at that size.

That being said, I'm on the whole liking what I'm seeing here, so I'll probably back.

[malanthrax]

Great feedback all.
I will show you the uncut art for the other 2 hearts and maybe I can see what you guys think about the whole heart motif

I really like the diamonds you've got. I don't know that the font bothers me personally so much.

But, I think the fuzzy look on the spades looks kind of off to me. The hearts being actual hearts, I'm not sure if I like how it fits with the art style you've got so far-- I think the right deck could pull it off, but I'm not sure this is the one for it. I think part of it is that all the pips seem to be in pretty different styles across the suits, and it doesn't give a very unified look.

I'm not a fan of the bigger shadows, it makes it a bit harder to read at that size.

That being said, I'm on the whole liking what I'm seeing here, so I'll probably back.

Thank you for the feedback. We tried to make the diamonds and spades really look somewhat the same due to overall shape and thickness and the clubs and hearts look the same.
Perhaps that was not the best idea.

Our overall clubs look is below and we turned it black on the cards for ease of view.

When you say the pips are in different styles do you mean color, or the layout? The layout is purposeful with spades and diamonds having the same pattern and hearts and clubs having the same overall pattern.

[malanthrax]

Other 2 suites aces(Drafts ignore the fonts)

[malanthrax]

King pic below covers this post.

[neongrey]

Thank you for the feedback. We tried to make the diamonds and spades really look somewhat the same due to overall shape and thickness and the clubs and hearts look the same.
Perhaps that was not the best idea.

Our overall clubs look is below and we turned it black on the cards for ease of view.

When you say the pips are in different styles do you mean color, or the layout? The layout is purposeful with spades and diamonds having the same pattern and hearts and clubs having the same overall pattern.

Aha! For some strange reason I thought your clubs were the spades-- don't ask why, everyone's brain takes a holiday sometimes. Realizing it's a club now makes the look a lot better for me. Now that I see what you're going for, it looks a lot better to me.

[malanthrax]

HI all.

First thank you for the comments!

Kings Revised with new font, spacing and sizing.

Click for full size.

Any comments?

[malanthrax]

We are in our design meeting but I took the ideas from you guys.

The following are some randoms. Also the background, in the final is much lighter. There but not half as dark.
Comments?

[malanthrax]

Also, not sure if you guys care but we got our first mock up of the metal versions(old versions with border and such) we will be offering in the KickStarter.

Excuse the writing this is from the draft banner on the preview KickStarter

[MagikFingerz]

I like the smaller font much better, though you should make sure that it is close enough to the edge for it to be visible in fans. Good call on that, it was mostly the size that bothered me.

Regarding the spades pips, are they basically black diamonds? Seems kinda strange.

About the heart, it being an actual organ just seems a bit misplaced, that's all. And on the King there's 6 of them, so it's a bit of an overload on organs on that card alone. For me anyway. I do like the other court cards though (Jack and Queen), the heart doesn't seem as misplaced there. But again, adding organ pips to those would create overload IMO.

I like the club pip on the Ace draft much better than those inkblots on the other cards.

[malanthrax]

I like the smaller font much better, though you should make sure that it is close enough to the edge for it to be visible in fans. Good call on that, it was mostly the size that bothered me.

Regarding the spades pips, are they basically black diamonds? Seems kinda strange.

About the heart, it being an actual organ just seems a bit misplaced, that's all. And on the King there's 6 of them, so it's a bit of an overload on organs on that card alone. For me anyway. I do like the other court cards though (Jack and Queen), the heart doesn't seem as misplaced there. But again, adding organ pips to those would create overload IMO.

I like the club pip on the Ace draft much better than those inkblots on the other cards.

Hi sir. I was just going to PM you to have another look.

The spades are not black diamonds they are mace heads(the game is a fantasy + post-apocalyptic game). We made that decision because we felt there was a nice connection between the clubs and hearts, and the diamonds and spades. I may have been wrong:) . I asked them to change them to straight black on the cards. I can change them back.

I agree with the overload. What do you think about the 5 of hearts I just posted?

We can always retexture any of the pips, darkened them for color. Easy as pie. I honestly thought everyone would hate that. It was actually my call. I will have them mock up one with normal pips and would love your feedback.

Here is a 5 and 6(ignore the wrong pip its an old draft) of clubs without the black and without the texture. What do you think? My personal issue was the higher cards began to look a bit...busy or something.

[MagikFingerz]

It's not that I dislike the spades, they just don't look like spades to me. I'm sure collectors who use their cards in actual play (poker, bridge etc) would agree that they might cause some confusion.

That 5 of hearts is ok, but I would suggest making just the corner pips more traditional (ie not an organ). That way you'd lessen the overload and the center pips would still match the organs in the court cards.

And I definitely like the textured clubs better than the all black ones.

[malanthrax]

2 other designs for the clubs that we played around with once we got to high numbers
I just saw your response. Very appreciated thank you! I will take it back to the artists and see what we can figure out.

[malanthrax]

Artist will rework the spade and I will rework on the layout of the hearts and the pips coloring.

Thanks! Any other comments feel free.

Edited. Moving to standard pips for all corners but we will gussy them up a bit of course.
New nine of clubs(haven't changed font) but added the standard pips on the corners.
With different number and corner pip color
With both blue to stand out.

Thinking of doing the corner pips blue and the numbers black.
Also a big thank you to everyone. The comments are truly helpful.

[neongrey]

Liking the third club design best, though I'm not sold on doing the number and pip different colours. Either way I think it's a great compromise choice, because it is a neat club design. I think I figured out why I assumed it was the spade though-- the borders are very smooth, and a little more spade-like. With the actual spade looking somewhat non-standard the combination made the clubs look more like spades.

That being said, I think with the more distinct index pips it's a lot more obvious that the club is a club, and makes it easier to appreciate the neat tree design it's got there. So I definitely think you're on to something there.

[malanthrax]

Thanks Neon. The meeting is over and everyone is going out to make some changes suggested here and elsewhere. By Sunday we will lock down the small design stuff.

As for pip/index being different colors. I agree. Currently we are blue blue for black cards and red red for red cards. I am thinking we will keep it this way as the blue really draws attention where black does not. The blue is also the same blue as on the back of the cards and lends itself well to connecting them.

I am however open to any other interpretations of that.

[malanthrax]

Our kings as they stand now.
We are redesigning the spades though.

And some of the cards with the new font lighter backs as well. Left the darker back on some to show the contrast

[MagikFingerz]

This is looking great! I really like the new indexes (indices?).

I wasn't sure about the blue before, but seeing the cards laid out it pops out in a good way.

I just realized I hadn't given the back design much thought, but now that I take a good look I can't help but be bothered about the thick white ornaments close to the center. They stand out too much to me, like someone signed it with a white sharpie. Maybe the lines could be just a tad thinner? I like everything else about it, especially the color.

The court cards are awesome btw

[malanthrax]

This is looking great! I really like the new indexes (indices?).

I wasn't sure about the blue before, but seeing the cards laid out it pops out in a good way.

I just realized I hadn't given the back design much thought, but now that I take a good look I can't help but be bothered about the thick white ornaments close to the center. They stand out too much to me, like someone signed it with a white sharpie. Maybe the lines could be just a tad thinner? I like everything else about it, especially the color.

The court cards are awesome btw

Awesome thanks.
About the backs. Do you mean the symbols(like an embellished N) or the lines that go from the edges to the center that have twists? I just want to make sure before I see what the artist things about it.

Tell me if I hit the right place in this edit.

[MagikFingerz]

I meant the symbols. Btw, are they actually an "N" and an "o"?

[malanthrax]

I meant the symbols. Btw, are they actually an "N" and an "o"?

No they aren't but that is awesome. We do have a couple subtle hints of other pics inside the back. But not the word no:) I played around and just had them lined out in the attachment above.

EDIT: Actually you know. I have to ask the artist. I know he said that he embedded a couple things into the backs. It could indeed say no. The script is based on the role-playing game the cards were originally a part of as a KickStarter. A diagonal script of writing they use.

[neongrey]

Yeah, they're looking really great now. Looking forward to the KS!

[malanthrax]

Hey thanks guys for the words.

We are pretty much final on our design now aside from the spades but since thats just a design change the layout of the cards and so forth is a mundane issue. I have shown them on a couple boards and its been great getting such positive feedback and amazing well thought out questions and requests for changes.

I am excited for the KS. I know there are a lot of cards, sadly we are a month late due to our RPG kickstarter. But I think that worked in our favor in a huge way due to posts here and the all around amazing amount of help everyone has supplied.