Silver Arrow Playing Cards - Relaunch Early November

[volantangel]

Honestly, i dont think this experiment is a failure, Jackson pulled the plug early on this, it has been like 2 weeks since it launched when its usually supposed to be 4weeks.

He gathered about 19k for a single deck, approxmiately the same as the other decks in the other projects on a per deck basis (once again not going to count the pearl deck, because it cant be bought) had this been given the last week or two to fund, plus more promotion, it might make 25k-30k (a projected figure that is better than any other campaigns, plus this is hardly jackson's best work), at half the price, he would have sold double the number of decks.

Is $6 the sweet spot? Probably not, i think $7-8 might yield better results, there can be $6 early birds =D

[chach]

What I don't understand is how D$D, HOPC, T11 and E can all have staple decks that cost <$10 yet Jackson can't. What part of the equation is missing? Is it because the others offer other products than just cards or what? I mean, how is it that Jason Brumbalow can print thousands of copies of Run with a badass slip case for a price point of $10 - $15 (and through USPCC to boot). So as I said, what part of the equation is missing in JR's case? Why isn't he able to produce a deck with a 30k print run and a price point of $10 if others are able to do so?

On the flip side, now that the project is cancelled, everyone outside the US has to move to another thread to complain about the cost of intl shipping. Now maybe you should don your tinfoil hats before reading on, but maybe that's why it was cancelled. Everyone caught on to the escalated intl costs and Jackson didn't want to be seen as the guy trying to scam money through shipping. But unable to decrease the costs w/o this being revealed beyond us 10% ers he opted to cancel outright.

[volantangel]

What I don't understand is how D$D, HOPC, T11 and E can all have staple decks that cost <$10 yet Jackson can't. What part of the equation is missing? Is it because the others offer other products than just cards or what? I mean, how is it that Jason Brumbalow can print thousands of copies of Run with a badass slip case for a price point of $10 - $15 (and through USPCC to boot). So as I said, what part of the equation is missing in JR's case? Why isn't he able to produce a deck with a 30k print run and a price point of $10 if others are able to do so?

The missing variable is capital risk. The big boys have deeper pockets and are used to tying up $30-$50k for a 20+k print run, that they will sell in the next 6 months to 1+ year. Jackson doesnt have/doesnt want to tie up such a big amount of capital to do such a thing, and uses KS to get funding to produce his "staple" deck. But obviously if you want to gather this amount of money in 30 days as compared to a staple run which can run indefinitely, its an uphill task.

I dont think that the KS model is one that is suitable for a staple run when taken to the extreme, perhaps a 10krun with a goal of 20-25k will be doable.

[Marcus]

The first custom deck produced by any of those companies was the Black Tiger deck by Ellusionist, and that was just a 5k run. Why? Because they didn't have the capital to risk, and because they had no idea how it would sell. They just had a lucky break since a 5k run was a bit cheaper back then as well - that's why they could keep the reasonable (though still a lot more expensive than a regular Bike). Nowadays they know that they can sell a run of 20k+ with ease - because they have done it time and time again, because they have the customer reach, and because they know that should one of their decks sell slower than expected they still have the income from other decks + all of the magic supplies. And lastly, it's only natural that if you regularly print hundreds of thousands of decks with USPCC, you won't necessarily pay the exact same price as an independent designer printing a lot less.

That's what separates them from Jackson. Jackson may have had very successful KS campaigns and sales, but a lot of that money has been eaten up by the printing costs, the shipping, the salaries for his employees in the fulfillment center (and the cost for rent of that place), and then he needs to cover his own living expenses as well. Even if he did have the capital to print a 20k run of one of his decks it would be a hugely different gamble for him than it is for the major companies, so it is completely understandable that he hasn't done that.

However, I do believe that Jackson can succeed in a KS campaign like this. The one major problem for him right now is that the eyes he's caught so far are mostly collectors willing to pay $15+ per deck. He is a big name for us that are aware of KS printed cards, but there is a huge market out there who still have yet to see what he's capable of. The ones who purchase all those bricks from the major companies. If he had a few decks printed and distributed/sold through a large company (my suggestion to him has been Murphy's - they do have the best reach in the business) he could be able to sell them for lower prices and catch the eyes of the bulk buyers. That would get his name out there, his customer base would grow by a lot and in the future he could probably do his own 20k runs through Kings Wild more easily. And by going this route he could grow his customer base not only into the bulk buyers that make up the magic and cardistry market, but also into the general public.

However, and yes, I do have a second however - Jackson might not want to move into that direction either. He wanted to do this on his own instead of working for somebody else. I can respect that he'd want to build his own thing here, and perhaps he does not want to go the route of selling to a magic market. I'm sure he could make a living selling limited edition decks to collectors for at least another year or so, possibly a lot longer depending on the reliability of repeat customers. If that's what he wants to do, that is what he should do.

[hikeeba]

I think cb is spot on about the lack of a premium being an issue.

I guess I'm in the minority of those who would rather have 4 $5 non-cellophane decks than one numbered deck. The Hounds and Baker St decks are great and I'm keeping all those from the Halloween sale (ditched the Crowns b/c I don't like them and sold my numbered ones to offset the cost).

I hope Jackson tries this again, though. I picked up a brick of the TH (USPCC traditionally cut) and I would have signed on for a brick of these if they were USPCC.

[Strag]

Let's not forget how International customers were being charged an extra $15 for shipping a brick (over and above actual shipping cost). That stopped several of us from pledging, including myself.

[Sher]

Relaunch coming early this month:

LTD Silver Arrows, featuring Kings Wild Exclusive Slip Case & Silver Foil integrated into the Card Back Design. Only 500 will be produced, and only 450 made available. Relaunching on Kickstarter in early November.

There will also be a standard edition that will not have a foiled back design or slip case.

I'm also excited to announce that I will collaborating with JP Playing Cards to fulfill all of my EU and UK orders so International shipping will be much more affordable for my awesome EU and UK backers. I will also be utilizing the brand spankin' new Kickstarter Shipping methods as well.

[snsdmonkey]

Awesome! Looks like the beginning of November will be packed!

[ecNate]

Only 500? Lol, keep it. I'm out at those sure to be ridiculous prices. From what was intended to be one of the most available and cheapest to this? Wtf

[snsdmonkey]

Only 500? Lol, keep it. I'm out at those sure to be ridiculous prices. From what was intended to be one of the most available and cheapest to this? Wtf

The original goal could not be fulfilled so I guess JR changed his plans.

[nECr0MaNCeD]

Only 500? Lol, keep it. I'm out at those sure to be ridiculous prices. From what was intended to be one of the most available and cheapest to this? Wtf

From what I can gather from the announcement there will be an unlimited version later. I'll grab one deck of these and see what the unlimited version brings. I was happy to see he found a cheaper shipping solution for the international backers. It shows he listens.

[Sher]

Also, I think this version will have a slipcase, similar to the one used for the 52 Jokers deck. This LE will probably be priced the same. Maybe $35?

[Cbkimble]

Only 500? Lol, keep it. I'm out at those sure to be ridiculous prices. From what was intended to be one of the most available and cheapest to this? Wtf

I've got to stand up for jackson on this one. He tried to do a "staple" deck since everyone complained about him not doing with the Tally Ho deck. He did exactly what several of the big boys did by offering a limited edition as a bonus/reward/etc for purchasing a brick and everyone went apeshit. Apparently the majority of his followers want only a LE. Therefore, he is doing just that. I do think he is going a little too extreme with only a print run of 500 but that's his decision. As long as he doesn't charge stupid prices, I'm in b/c These decks are very nice.

[Sher]

I don't think 500 is extreme. 500 is probably the new LE number, since a 1,000 print run is getting more and more common due to it being EPCC's minimum. 500 seems like an incredibly low number, but I'm not so sure premium decks with re-designed standard courts will sell as quickly as those with custom, non-standard courts and there may very well be enough to accommodate everybody.

[jerichoholic]

Only 500? Lol, keep it. I'm out at those sure to be ridiculous prices. From what was intended to be one of the most available and cheapest to this? Wtf

The original goal could not be fulfilled so I guess JR changed his plans.

That was because Jackson tried to produce a deck with all the bells and whistles really cheap and I guess you can't have both. How about producing a cheap staple deck without all the added bells and whistles? I'm sure it would sell well, would be cheaper to produce, and would sell for a good price.

[Widdee]

I don't think 500 is extreme. 500 is probably the new LE number, since a 1,000 print run is getting more and more common due to it being EPCC's minimum. 500 seems like an incredibly low number, but I'm not so sure premium decks with re-designed standard courts will sell as quickly as those with custom, non-standard courts and there may very well be enough to accommodate everybody.

Does seem like the 1k runs aren't fetching the prices they used to, Sher.

[vasta41]

I don't think 500 is extreme. 500 is probably the new LE number, since a 1,000 print run is getting more and more common due to it being EPCC's minimum. 500 seems like an incredibly low number, but I'm not so sure premium decks with re-designed standard courts will sell as quickly as those with custom, non-standard courts and there may very well be enough to accommodate everybody.

Does seem like the 1k runs aren't fetching the prices they used to, Sher.

I also blame market saturation. 5 years ago, cards were not only rarer due to low print runs but also because there were less cards in general. With sooooo many custom cards nowadays, the market can be overwhelming! It's easy to be distracted. I almost forget that I'm still looking for Bicycle Dreamcatcher and the Cage Gardens lol

[adanyeva2]

Were the 'new' silver arrow not supposed to be launched in early Novermber?

[Bikefanatic]

I don't think 500 is extreme. 500 is probably the new LE number, since a 1,000 print run is getting more and more common due to it being EPCC's minimum. 500 seems like an incredibly low number, but I'm not so sure premium decks with re-designed standard courts will sell as quickly as those with custom, non-standard courts and there may very well be enough to accommodate everybody.

Does seem like the 1k runs aren't fetching the prices they used to, Sher.

I also blame market saturation. 5 years ago, cards were not only rarer due to low print runs but also because there were less cards in general. With sooooo many custom cards nowadays, the market can be overwhelming! It's easy to be distracted. I almost forget that I'm still looking for Bicycle Dreamcatcher and the Cage Gardens lol

Dreamcatcher decks aren't that rare. The Clot and Draw Like A Boss maybe the decks no one sees again.

[vasta41]

Dreamcatcher decks aren't that rare. The Clot and Draw Like A Boss maybe the decks no one sees again.

Yes, I know. My point was that it was easier to collect all custom cards made in 2009 (for example) than it is to collect all the cards made in 2014 due to the increase in custom playing cards.