Monte Carlo Diffractor (OATH x VXD)

[Strag]

@VXD you speak a lot about the effect on you and your mental health, yet you say nothing at all about your backers who have trusted you with their own hard-earned money. Trust is a two way street and as Rouselle says you should be updating more frequently on Kickstarter, not ignoring the people who put their faith and trust in you.

I have backed a huge number of Kickstarters and the ones where creators continue to communicate even in the face of huge delays are received much better than those whose creators simply go silent which is what you have done.

These are hard times for everyone, not just you.

[GandalfPC]

While it may seem to VXD that there are only a few unhappy voices, the general rule in business is that for everyone you hear from there is a fairly large group you don’t hear from that feels the same way. Kickstarter campaigns only have small numbers of backers to use the standard metric, but the standard is for every one person you hear from there are 5000 of like mind. Such metrics have always made me take each end user comment seriously when producing for the masses.

I do empathize with him, and the issue of refunds due to delay or printer switching are likely out of the realm of possibility unless expressly stated in the campaign (KW for instance offers refunds) - but updates are expected and required, even if they have little news to convey.

I think in this case patience will be rewarded with decks, and that it will be quite a delay as stated (near end of year)

[aznh]

the way this goof is goin were lookin at may 2023-2024

get wit the progrm
ppl arnt happy n now ur making it all about u

hows that aluminum sp goin, still up ? ? or are u still bamking on waiting it out for the next recession crash to produce the decks ? ?

[GandalfPC]

This post removed, as it was an an answer to a question not asked, or more correctly put a response to a statement not made - mistook it for a reply on another thread.

[EvilDuncan]

I appreciate your take aznh - but it is not my intention to make this about me.

I'm not sure he was talking about you, but I think it's best not to engage with people who have nothing better to do with their time than troll this forum by mashing keys until a vague semblance of words come out (Honestly I'm not sure he has a shift key or any form of spell check).

[GandalfPC]

That does make his last sentence make more sense, and I see now that this post is in the Monte Carlo link and not the Blacklist link - I guess I should pay more attention In any case, he does have a right to complain and though I do normally ignore such things it was justified enough whether directed at me or VXD.

As it seems it was directed at VXD, I will add that both situations seem similar - both lack proper communications but both seem to have the sincere intention to fulfill at the point. The reasons for poor communication in one case is still a mystery to me, in the other I have a friend with serious depression issues and another with an anxiety disorder and I know that the pressure can be debilitating and is better dealt with by patience and understanding than a continued brow beating. Hopefully aznh will realize that as well.


I will also add that this circumstance may not have been foreseen, but it could have been - that future campaigns should there be any should plan for this contingency - either by planning on possible refunds or having someone else in charge of or assisting in fulfillment - as it is also understandable that people going in on kickstarter campaigns also deserve to have promises fulfilled and communication continuous.

[PiazzaDelivery]

WOW. I am genuinely dumbfounded that there is no printer listed in the campaign description. I guess I naively assumed that they would be using Vrijdag and/or Cartamundi as they have in the past. Once again, the "Lotrék" appearance made me do dumb sheeeet, like breaking my personal rule to never ever back a campaign that doesn't list a printer. The supposed printer switch was my only sticking point and apparently a giant oversight. That's on me, and I apologize @VXD, I was wrong. Ima take down my Kickstarter comment. However, I strongly suggest you write on Kickstarter what you wrote here, or something to that effect. It would appear to me that by staying silent, all you're doing is adding fuel to the fire. In my estimation, the way to respond to an accusation that can easily be proven false is by easily proving it's false rather than clamming up and worrying your backers. Just my two cents.

[Grizz]

Is it time to blacklist VXD? I've seen a lot of creators try to buy more time to fulfill rewards, but I've never seen a creator blame backers for their lack of reward.

[GandalfPC]

My full comment regarding blacklisting moved to the blacklisting thread - give it a bit of time being my conclusion

[Adamthinks]

Is it time to blacklist VXD? I've seen a lot of creators try to buy more time to fulfill rewards, but I've never seen a creator blame backers for their lack of reward.

Yeah, he was full on gaslighting in that last post. That was odd.

[jerichoholic]

Why are you posting/complaining here? It's been over 2 months now since you updated your backers, why don't you start with that? An update goes a long way. You not updating backers and not responding to comments or requests for refunds tells me a lot. You are on my personal blacklist and shit list. Your last update talked about prices of things with everything going on. If you think that things are going to somehow improve any time soon you are sorely mistaken and this will only hurt you as prices continue to increase. You would be far from the only creator to sit there and make excuses and then disappear and probably not the last unfortunately. Remind me again how long has your Cube project been going on now? Like 2 years and no closer to completion as of yet. Why does it take so long? It's unacceptable and the length of that does not give people confidence with the current project. Do better.

[VXD]

Hi all

I am taking all comments on board, thank you and I agree with much of what's been said. Always trying to keep all backers happy, but it's not easy sometimes.

I'd just like to clarify that what I am referring to as abuse (which has been flipped around as me blaming backers by a few) is mainly PM's via various media channels including on KS, which are not visible to people of course. Comments are usually pretty tame. Some of the PM's though are extremely abusive. Other creators no doubt know what I'm talking about. Anyway, KS was notified of them. Some of these people are not even backers of the project either.

Anyway, I will say no more on the matter...it's been dealt with and there are more important things to do (production arrangements).

Myself, Bill and Lotrek are all on with various tasks still and this will be put into an update on the KS page in the next couple days.

Hope all are well.

Kind regards

[Strag]

Myself, Bill and Lotrek are all on with various tasks still and this will be put into an update on the KS page in the next couple days.

Next couple days eh? And you wonder why your backers are upset with you.

[kasuma99]

Myself, Bill and Lotrek are all on with various tasks still and this will be put into an update on the KS page in the next couple days.

Next couple days eh? And you wonder why your backers are upset with you.

2 weeks are only 14 days though, well within range of a few days compare to 365

[Bikefanatic]

Hopefully the production arrangements are really being worked on and ready to ship with the extended time passed. I got nearly $300 USD put up for this!

[Thedissident001]

I’ve got nothing but love for the products that VXD releases. They are invariably a very high quality product and I have no complaints with what I’ve purchased in the past.
I can’t honestly say I have the same regard for VXD’s business acumen however. I’ve been on the wrong end of “differences in ideology” in the past, and I genuinely believe they would be better served with some distance from the customer themselves. Spent time on the product as they is where they excel. In my experience, creators that aren’t great with customers tend to be quite poor on the delivery side of things, have more problems with completion and like to blame everything and everyone else for their shortcomings.
As they say, “three things remain not long hidden; the sun, the moon and the truth” - people are generally disappointed but more appreciative when they know the facts of what is going on if they know everything is being done to get them their pledges

[Bikefanatic]

They sent a KS update, no much going on just "stuff is moving along." I'll stick to my pledge than trying to get a discount on something else.

[Harvonsgard]

Someone actually reviewed them or handled them? Appearantly they have improved since then but the only product I've handled were the Las Vegas Diffeactor. Cards cut uneven, stiff, bad handling. Quite the opposite of lovable.

[Bradius]

The only Diffractor deck I have opened is one of my London decks. I find the handling to be decent. I wouldn't put it up with USPCC or Cartamundi, but it seems decent to me. The coating and siip seems actually really nice. I thought they did a really good job on handling.

[Harvonsgard]

Then they definitely improved.

[jerichoholic]

I recently sent him a message on Kickstarter, basically telling him to do something and his response was that he was reporting me for spam because I was not a backer! Who cares? It's a publicly funded project. I have as much right as anyone to offer up an opinion, backer or not. He is quite the dick.

[Bradius]

Ah, you are complaining about a kickstarter campaign in which you didn't even participate? And don't see a problem with it?

[Harvonsgard]

VXD has never been the best in A) updates/responses/PR and B) timely delivering products BUT in this case, kudos for even replying to you. I would have replied with either, "Who the f**k are you?" or simply ghosting you.

No problem with sharing a perspective in a forum like here, even if you aren't involved in a project but if you aren't supporting them on kickstarter why'd you bother them there? Just takes away from their time (to sort their shit out) and just enforces their anxiety that'll make them continue with their poor communication strategy .

[Strag]

Pretty amusing that I am a backer and was never respomded to over multiple messages but he takes the time to respond to vjose.

Ah well.

[Harvonsgard]

Lmfao... funny indeed.

[double_left]

****** can we get an update ffs


——

Note: Tamed down by mod - lets keep it civil please. (GandalfPC)

[Harvonsgard]

Lel... no.
Oath x VXD = delay until infinity.

[Bradius]

I think Lotrek actually completed the design files some time ago. I don't think he can be blamed on the delay of this project.

[Harvonsgard]

Of course not. It was mainly a joke. But all jokes aside, I still wouldn't back any project that involves Lotrék paired with another creator who is famous for delays.

[guru]

Guru

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I'll take a bet with you now that in 5-10 years time, most of the top designers (of custom playing cards) will be working with Print Finishers, rather than playing card factories. It makes sense, because these print finishers can easily do what playing card factories do, but the reverse does not apply. Plus a top-end print finisher is set up business-model wise to produce smaller runs of high value product, which better suits the direction that the (custom) playing card market is going. The only 'trade secret' that playing card factories possessed (until recently) was their card-sorting machines, but these days with China reverse-engineering simple machines and the power of web searches and easy communication, that barrier is gone. The rest is a piece of cake. And CHEAP. Card sorting machine = $50K. Cutting machine = $110K. Cello-wrapping = less (but not exactly sure). Compared to a $1.5M machine.

Remember, Cartamundi etc make most of their cash from selling very basic cards to casinos. 90% of revenues. Custom playing cards is not their focus at all and they cannot survive easily by just supplying the custom playing card market. Too many of them too.

Give it a few years....you'll see the shift. Bets?

Sorry, I missed this and would love to bet on this. I am good sport & it will just be fun to come back after 5 years ( 10 years sound too far ahead), and use this same thread and conversation again. I have already bookmarked this post and put up a reminder for May 4th, 2025. Why not May 3rd? Because I like 4th more.

It will also be great to still have UC and all these folks that are regulars now. And to be specifically clear, after 5 years, the most of the designers of custom playing card deck will still be printing their decks (some already do their tucks with them so that rules out and here we are talking about cards) through playing card factories and not print finishers.

I think it will be great for both of us to come back after 5 years and comment on the current situation then.

May the fourth be with you.

Had a reminder set up for the wrong date n year. Anyways, I think the bet is still on . 2 years more to go.