A warning

[Grizz]

I realize this may be the last post I am allowed to make on unitedcardists.com, but I feel the trade off is worth it.

WARNING!!!

Requiem Team, Lorenzo, is no longer an honest and understanding person. Be very careful on how you word your messages to them.

[kevork]

Can you or anyone else provide context?

[GandalfPC]

I would wholeheartedly disagree with the statement of warning.

For context you can refer to his exchange on the Odd Fellows campaign and make up your own mind.

After reading the comments on the Odd fellows campaign I can see what a mess this really is - in my opinion this was handled poorly by Grizz, and is not going to be resolved.

The second to last comment to Lorenzo, which asked if P52 had received his DM’s was two days before his warning post there and here - and Lorenzo has been on vacation for the past few days - patience might have avoided this.

The warning is not valid in my opinion, any claim of lack of honesty seems unwarranted - and lack of understanding seems to have been hard earned. As for watching your wording, I’m not sure that was the issue, until the final warning comments.

[Harvonsgard]

I'm not for removing anything, because people should learn how to evalute and take information/posts. There is nothing wrong in my book as long is no one makes a false claim about someone commiting a crime.

Here at UC I guess loads of people will have a good chuckle when reading a warning about Lorenzo not being honest anymore - at least I did.

P.S.: (no news to seasoned folks) From a business side of things I had to deal with Lorenzo twice. And both times Lorenzo was quite prompt, very polite and did the best to resolve the situation.

I'd love to add that Lorenzo is a one man operation to my knowledge. For example even Lego's (best in the world) customer service needs some days to reply in occasional cases.

That's about all

[Grizz]

I knew this would be the response. This is not a new problem. Part of the issue is that he moved a Kickstarter conversation to Patreon. It is also confusing becuase Lorenzo seems to be the creator of both Eye of the Ocean and P52 Odd Fellow even though he is listed as a contributor on the P52 campaign. I do know that the creator of the P52 Odd Fellows campaign had family issues, so Lorenze was handling all engagement for a while.

I would like to add that I agreed with GandalfPC and Harvonsgard until recently. I did state that this is a change in his behavious.

The following post will contain copy and paste of our exchanges.

[Grizz]

Charlie Cadabra
18 days ago
I have not received a tracking notification. I did check my Spam folder.

Charlie


BrandonSuperbacker
16 days ago
You should try messaging the creator if you haven't already. You can change your username, so it can be impossible for the creator to match you to a backer number.

Charlie Cadabra
16 days ago
Thanks Brandon. I finally fixed it all out. I was out-of-town over the weekend when the package arrived. My son put it in my back office but didn't think to mention it to me!

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I had to free the pip. I got two sets of the trio and all the decks I opened are a jumbled, is this part of the puzzle? I mean they are all in the same order but not like a normal deck would come.

Anyway exquisite work Lorenzo. This was my most sought after deck and now its here I am looking forward to Odd Fellows

Requiem TeamCreatorSuperbacker
18 days ago
the deck can form a map, they are mixed up otherwise it is too easy to compose the map. Thank you for the feedback!

Garrett smithSuperbacker
18 days ago
I have to buy the book.

BrandonSuperbacker
16 days ago
Don't forget you need the book with the astrolabe(?) on the cover. The book should have a leather cover. Don't buy a preview copy if you want to solve the puzzle.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Shawna Watts
awna Watts22 days ago
Got my decks and one of them the number is blocked because it's folded over and then sealed so irs 40 something out of 1600. Poor job on the packaging.

BrandonSuperbacker
16 days ago
Did you message the creator? A replacement deck may be available.

Shawna Watts
16 days ago
Ya I the 1st one just said it was and issue with who packed the cards and he said he will pass the complaint along lol. So ya im sure that just means nothing will happen.

BrandonSuperbacker
16 days ago
I'm surprised. Did you send a direct message to the creator through Kickstarter? I think Lorenzo reads the messages himself. If you contacted the shipper or fulfillment company, they probably told you that they would pass the complaint along.

(I'm just trying to help you get a deck with a proper seal. There should be replacements for a factory defect like the folded seal. I don't see how the seal could get folded during packing. Is the seal under the plastic wrap?)

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------


MAY 13
Stockholm17
3:07 AM
Hi Brandon, I have to ask you not to engage too much with backers leaving a comment on kickstarter. Most of the issues are solved even if you do not see a reply from me. That lady, for instance, wrote me an ugly email with complaints and whining like a baby without asking for anything and just saying that the product was sub-par and that she will never back again my projects. A Karen. Thank you!
Brandon
3:52 AM
I'm sorry. I'm deleting my account there, so it won't be an issue going forward. I thought she had a legitimate problem. Many creators don't pay very close attention to the comments.

I won't post on any of your feeds going forward. I did not mean to cause you any discomfort.
Stockholm17
3:55 AM
no worries at all, and No need to delete the account. The comment section is just a comment section, like facebook. If the backers have issues for real, they write a mail and I take it from there. No discomfort at all.
Brandon
4:08 AM
I'm going to delete my account on Kickstarter regardless. I'm not going to support Kickstarter after they move to a distributed ledger.

I'm happy you aren't upset with me. I was attempting to say that some backers don't know to message the creator directly. I've even had people ask, "How do I contact the creator directly?" in response to a similar comment. If I knew that she was just complaining, I would have ignored her. Although, I have defended creators who have treated me well over a couple of projects when backers call them greedy or liars in the comment section. Anyway, the issue is solved. I won't make any more comments.

I hope you have a great weekend!
Brandon
12:54 PM
I do understand if you want to cancel my pledges for EotO and Odd Fellows. Then all of my comments will be deleted, and I won't be able to post any new comments.

If you decide to cancel my Patreon account, could I have a refund? I understand if that isn't possible. Could you decide if you want me to be a Patron before the end of the month? I promise I won't post comments about you anywhere. I won't post in any of your comment sections as well.

Please, contact me on Kickstarter for matters related to Kickstarter on Kickstarter and on Patreon for problems here. It was confusing trying to figure out exactly what was going on since you messaged me about Kickstarter via Patreon messages.

I'm sorry that I didn't explain myself very well in the messages I sent to you. I was trying to finish using the computer before a thunderstorm blew in.
Stockholm17
1:11 PM
why should I cancel your Patreon subscription or the pledges on odd fellows and eoto?
I just asked you not to engage too much in the comment section on EOTO kickstarter campaign. That’s all.
It is you deciding on your own accounts, not me. I told you I am not upset or anything like that.
MAY 14
Brandon
2:43 AM
I was overreacting. My PTSD has been really bad recently. I just can't tolerate arguing or fighting with people. I try to avoid any possible disagreements. People seem to take simple disagreements as personal attacks. I did not want to continue down a negative path, so I just gave up. I just need to stop engaging with people.

When I didn't hear back from you, I figured I had said something that upset you. It didn't occur to me that you may have already turned off your computer.

We have a different opinion on how backers use the comment section. I didn't realize that you meant I had been commenting too much in general, and the lady who was complaining about the seal was a specific example. I was trying to help the people in the comment section. I won't post any comments.

Maybe I should have said "cancel my patronage" instead of "cancel my account". I did not mean to imply that I wanted you to delete my user accounts from either platform. I am choosing not to support Kickstarter after they move to a distributed ledger.

I enjoy being your Patron. I like watching your process. You always post cool pictures and interesting information.

Anyway, I'm fine with how things are right now. I just won't post as many comments.
No need to reply unless you have something you want to add.
Stockholm17
3:25 AM
Hi Brandon, thank you for the explanation. I have to agree that you over-reacted. Stick to the words I write, do not go further with additional thoughts and interpretations
Thank you for the help on Kickstarter. Just avoid those comments about people not reading the updates and whining about things that are clearly expalined in the updates.
I AM NOT MAD AT YOU. <—— read it twice. LOL
Brandon
4:20 AM
Thanks for understanding. orz

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

WARNING!!!

Requiem Team, Lorenzo, is no longer an honest and understanding person. Be very careful on how you word your messages to them.

BrandonSuperbacker
2 days ago
@Requiem Team I hate to bother you. Could you ask Portfolio52 if they have received the DMs I sent? Other people have mentioned that Kickstarter isn't delivering messages properly. Thank you



Cinnamon WingSuperbacker
3 days ago
None of us have received a parcel. And the ad says the rest of the decks they have, which look like are all of ours are going up for sale on June 1. Sending an ad to sell decks before backers get theirs is a bad move.

Requiem TeamCollaboratorSuperbacker
3 days ago
I think you need to calm down and read again what I wrote in the newsletter, especially the title. It is about the release of THE EYE OF THE OCEAN!!!!! NOT ODD FELLOWS.

BrandonSuperbacker
3 days ago
Let's all just take a moment to calm down. It sucks that the only way to delete or edit a comment is to contact Kickstarter customer service, and they take a long time to reply.

I know it is confusing to have Requiem Team launching a campaign and being so involved in this Kickstarter at the same time. You might misread a newsletter or send a message on the wrong platform. Honest mistakes do happen. Everyone seems to be tense right now which is understandable.

It might be helpful if Alexander Chin used Kickstarter more often, so he could communicate with backers directly.

Cinnamon WingSuperbacker
3 days ago
I saw on a Stockholm advertisement that supposedly 90%-95% of kickstarter parcels have been delivered which is an absolute lie. I have recieve a si gleword let alone a parcel. What is going on?

Cinnamon WingSuperbacker
3 days ago
I saw on a Stockholm



BrandonSuperbacker
6 days ago
Can I get a refund? I don't have the time to wait on a campaign without a fulfillment date.

Requiem TeamCollaboratorSuperbacker
6 days ago
In the latest update there is an estimated fulfillment date. Refunds are not possible at this stage.

BrandonSuperbacker
6 days ago
Please, allow the creator to respond.



BrandonSuperbacker
7 days ago
Are you responding to DMs?

Portfolio52Creator
7 days ago
Yes, let us double check your account for you

BrandonSuperbacker
7 days ago
Have you had a chance to look at my account?

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Portfolio52
Portfolio52
May 26 2022
Report spam
Hi Brandon,

Sorry, I'll be more persistent with the actual Kickstarter interface. I've been responding directly to messages from email but it seems that sometimes it does not go through. I also apologize for being more present. Several months ago we had a family issue that changed up my entire life which has caused me to take an incredibly long sabbatical from social media in order to be with them during their remaining time. But I do agree it is not an excuse to completely ghost.
Lorenzo and I had an initial agreement that I would manage everything during campaign and that he would take the back end. But I also recognize that given it is a partner project I still do need to be present regardless.

Regarding your request for refund, as a producer we made that completely up to the creator. Lorenzo specified that refunds were okay during campaign and 30 days post charging of the campaign. Unfortunately we are way past that date to refund. If Lorenzo specifically tells you that refunds are possible I will be happy to process that for you. I admit I wanted to list shipping window for early June given the way shipping has gone and understand this delay is making no one happy. Lorenzo was a bit optimistic, but at the end of the day we promise that the cards will get to you.
This is also the nature of Kickstarter. We create the project and spend the money after we collect the funds based on the pledge numbers. Accepting refunds this far late into the campaign that affect that initial production cost. We do apologize but refunds this late post Kickstarter, right before the shipping window is really unheard of. Once again if Lorenzo says the refund works I am happy to do so. We really want to make sure we are supporting the artist per their request established in the beginning of the project and don't want to go behind their backs.

I will be checking the KS interface directly going forward. I once again profusely apologize for the lack of response and will be better going forward.

-Alex

Brandon
Brandon
May 26 2022
Hey Alex,

I am sorry to hear that you had such a concerning issue. I hope that things are getting better for you and your family.

I sent a long email to alex@___playingcards.com about wanting a refund and the problems I'm having with Lorenzo. I can tell you about it again if you didn't receive an email from grizz____@___.com or possibly brandino___@___mail.com.

You don't need to ask Lorenzo. He will say no. He is aware that I want a refund. I thought Lorenzo was a great guy. I know he takes financial matters very seriously and tend to be fair minded. I recently became aware that he thinks mental illness is a joke.

You are the creator. Refunds are 100% at your discretion. I no longer wish to support Lorenzo. If you don't want to issue a refund, please, reply as soon as possible. I will have very important instructions on shipping.

Thank you,
Brandon


===

Note: I have edited the email addresses above to mask them and prevent spam bots from grabbing them up. They were posted in the context of a discussion and not meant for point of contact in any case - GandalfPC

[Harvonsgard]

Cool. I don't see how Lorenzo is dishonest within this whole conversation but you do you.

I personally would refrain from posting my email adresses in a public forum btw.

[GandalfPC]

Honestly none of that makes the reason for your warning any clearer to me. While you did mention PTSD in one sentence it does come across in context as a euphemism rather than a medical condition. I for one certainly take such medical conditions seriously, I am even especially “on the lookout”, but I would expect most people (perhaps even me) to miss it in that context - people use that phrase all the time to imply getting hot under the collar when possibly not warranted.

In the entire exchange I see it stemming from the creators making a request that you not fill a customer service role in the comments section, as they were on top of the issues, some of which were already handled - I have had this request from someone in the past I am quite sure, as should come as no surprise with my customer service instincts. I try to be helpful where I see need for help. I do not take offense at such things.

Taking him as “thinking mental health issues are a joke”, along with several of the reactions seems to have been more PTSD related than Lorenzo related - posting his private comments to you regarding another backer is an unfair play as well - as is the seeking a refund past the 30 days, and blowing up the issue (again, PTSD is nothing to gloss over here - but as it does not seem that anyone was actually aware of it at the time, I have to address the above comments and warning under that light) - blowing up the issue to a point where you want refunds all around and are posting multiple warnings seems to have not been on anyone but you.

In any case refunds may or may not be at any one parties discretion in that campaign - but not wanting to support someone anymore is done in the future by not supporting them anymore - not by obtaining a refund from a non refundable project. That is not a thing. You can ask - sure - but you cannot call someone dishonest for not doing so.

You also see it as not being understanding, but I see it as the kind of exchange that almost no one would understand. I personally might have, and I personally would have refunded you - but that is me - and I understand that not everyone is me. Many people are pretty happy about that, and I take no offense at that either.

In the end, if its an issue of PTSD, it certainly makes more sense as to what happened - frankly without it, it makes no sense at all. And as I really don’t believe other parties were aware of it, I think you should take that into account.

[Timmargh]

(Edited to add: I did not see GandalfPC's post before adding this.)

I have read this through twice and I'm struggling to see what the issue is here. As I read it, Lorenzo is being pretty straightforward and understanding considering that, as has been mentioned here many times, and recently in the Odd Fellows Kickstarter comments, running a Kickstarter campaign can be incredibly stressful, let alone running two.

I can appreciate that you were most likely just trying to be helpful by replying to other users questions and issues, but try to see it from Lorenzo's point of view; as he mentioned, just because he hasn't commented in the public section, it doesn't mean that he hasn't dealt with it privately. And specifically regarding Shawna Watts' issue, mentioning that "a replacement deck maybe available" may cause further issues as, a deck may not bei available, and you may have unwittingly given her false hope.

You are, of course, free to interpret Lorenzo's words in your own way; I just can't see it myself.

~

One part that I take issue with is this:

[...] I recently became aware that he thinks mental illness is a joke. [...]

How exactly did you reach this conclusion? Unless there is part of the conversation that you have not posted here I really cannot see this at all.

You may or may not know but I myself am physically disabled. I recently contacted Lorenzo regarding the current Eye of the Ocean challenge, specifically the book part as I am having difficulty reading the book without assistance, and so I asked him if a PDF version is available; unfortunately, he stated that his agreement with the co-authors prevents him from giving me such a thing, but he has promised to ask them regardless. It is a minor thing and, most likely, requires little effort from him, but my point is that he clearly does not think disability is a joke.

And just to be clear, in no way am I comparing mental disability with physical disability as they are both clearly different issues, but in my 49 years experience of being disabled and seeing many, many different peoples attitudes towards disability, I cannot think of a single example where someone has considered physical disability "valid" and mental disability "invalid," for lack of better terms.

[Strag]

Requiem Team, Lorenzo, is no longer an honest and understanding person. Be very careful on how you word your messages to them.

Nope, Lorenzo is amazing and has always been polite and helpful with any issue I have had. Hard disagree.

I am sorry for your struggles and hope that if you do seek help with them that you are successful. Seems pretty hard.

[Grizz]

Stockholm17
3:25 AM
Hi Brandon, thank you for the explanation. I have to agree that you over-reacted. Stick to the words I write, do not go further with additional thoughts and interpretations
Thank you for the help on Kickstarter. Just avoid those comments about people not reading the updates and whining about things that are clearly expalined in the updates.
I AM NOT MAD AT YOU. <—— read it twice. LOL

I consider that post extremely disrespectful. This is the specific joke I am referring to. I just apologized for overreacting and explained why. Does Lorenzo need to grind my nose in it? Why is LOL added? I don't know why he wanted to shout at me. Why would I need to read "IAM NOT MAD AT YOU." twice. I only a LOL if I am making a joke of some kind.

As for going by exactly what someone writes, is anyone capable of doing that? We all bring a previous life's worth of experience to every interaction. Swastikas are considered a symbol of hate, but even the German government does not bad positive religious symbols that the Swastika was stolen from.

I know you have a disability. I would rather not talk about my health in a public forum. Please, email me.

[bdawg923]

You're overthinking this. He probably wrote it in caps and asked you to read it twice to emphasize it, because he told you a few times already he's not upset, yet you keep mentioning you're sorry and think he's upset. Doesn't sound at all like he's making fun of you. Also hard disagree on this post. I never had an issues with Lorenzo or how he runs his campaigns and he always tries to help out. I don't think he was being rude or trying to be rude to you or trying to make fun of you or anything like that and I think you took the interaction the wrong way tbh.

[Harvonsgard]

Some people try to take tension away with a smile or online a haha or LOL. Just try to wrap your head around people being different and acting different. If you found it offensive or disrespectful so be it - that's life. You've made your point. Most people will disagree - not from a point of malintent but simply because the majority has different experiences dealing with Lorenzo - that's life, too.

Better handle the situation with the people involved aka Alex and Lorenzo directly.

+1 for bdawg - that's exactly how I interpet the situation.

[EvilDuncan]

Lorenzo does tend to be quite blunt in his replies, but is not meant to be disrespectful. I chalk it up to language and cultural differences.

I have seen several people over the past couple years that don't like the way Lorenzo responds to things, but I think they are just quick to judge and don't really read what he writes.

[GandalfTheWhite]

Stockholm17
3:25 AM
Hi Brandon, thank you for the explanation. I have to agree that you over-reacted. Stick to the words I write, do not go further with additional thoughts and interpretations
Thank you for the help on Kickstarter. Just avoid those comments about people not reading the updates and whining about things that are clearly expalined in the updates.
I AM NOT MAD AT YOU. <—— read it twice. LOL

I consider that post extremely disrespectful. This is the specific joke I am referring to. .......

In my opinion that response does not mean he thinks mental illness is a joke. I feel you are reading too much in to this and your interpretations is making you think he is making a joke.

My interpretation by reading his response to you is that he is just trying to convey that you do not need to burn your time in responding to other people comments and whinings AND my other interpretation on the "LOL" is that he is laughing on himself on the fact that you thought he was mad at you. While he was never mad at you in the first place.

It is very hard to convey and show right emotions virtually via typing out responses. If this interaction was in person you'd realize he was never mad at you and was just telling you to relax and not worry about other people's comments on the comment page of KS.

Too much thinking is never good. I tend to think and interpret situations a lot and it is have never done anything good for me. Creates more stress and anxiety.

[EvilDuncan]

I realize this may be the last post I am allowed to make on unitedcardists.com, but I feel the trade off is worth it.

What kind of forum do you think this is, anyway? Do you think you would be banned for voicing some perceived slight against you by a major creator?

[Grizz]

I received deleted messages from moderators. I don't know what that means.

[Grizz]

Stockholm17
3:25 AM
Hi Brandon, thank you for the explanation. I have to agree that you over-reacted. Stick to the words I write, do not go further with additional thoughts and interpretations
Thank you for the help on Kickstarter. Just avoid those comments about people not reading the updates and whining about things that are clearly expalined in the updates.
I AM NOT MAD AT YOU. <—— read it twice. LOL

I consider that post extremely disrespectful. This is the specific joke I am referring to. .......

In my opinion that response does not mean he thinks mental illness is a joke. I feel you are reading too much in to this and your interpretations is making you think he is making a joke.

My interpretation by reading his response to you is that he is just trying to convey that you do not need to burn your time in responding to other people comments and whinings AND my other interpretation on the "LOL" is that he is laughing on himself on the fact that you thought he was mad at you. While he was never mad at you in the first place.

It is very hard to convey and show right emotions virtually via typing out responses. If this interaction was in person you'd realize he was never mad at you and was just telling you to relax and not worry about other people's comments on the comment page of KS.

Too much thinking is never good. I tend to think and interpret situations a lot and it is have never done anything good for me. Creates more stress and anxiety.

I read this message and found it upsetting, so I didn't reply right away. When I reread the message, and thought through it like someone was talking to me in person, I became even more upset. I set up a little play in my mind of him saying exactly what he typed how he typed it as Lorenzo request. This only mad me more upset. If Lorenzo had contacted me on Kickstarter, or if he had realized I can only see comments and was trying to help, then I wouldn't be so upset by now.

[GandalfPC]

I received deleted messages from moderators. I don't know what that means.

At least one of those had been mine - I spent quite a bit of time (an hour or two) on this last night and as things unfolded I found my initial message and posts to not be very pertinent and wanted to distill thIngs down rather than overly expound or ask already answered questions - nothing of any consequence - sorry for any confusion

[Timmargh]

[…]
I AM NOT MAD AT YOU. <—— read it twice. LOL

I consider that post extremely disrespectful. This is the specific joke I am referring to. I just apologized for overreacting and explained why. Does Lorenzo need to grind my nose in it? Why is LOL added? I don't know why he wanted to shout at me. Why would I need to read "IAM NOT MAD AT YOU." twice. I only a LOL if I am making a joke of some kind.

[…]

As I read it, I really don’t think he meant to be disrespectful and isn’t laughing at you.

I interpret the capitals as being used for emphasis, not shouting. And in my experience people had “LOL“ to denote lightheartedness. Yes, the original meaning is “laugh out loud,“ but people tend to use it for more often to imply a lack of seriousness rather than actual laughter, if that makes sense.

But, once again, we all interpret things differently; these are just my feelings on the subject.

[CourtCurator]

I think this is a clear case of miscommunication/misinterpretation. When something triggers us based on our past experiences, it can often be incredibly difficult to see how our own assumptions shape the reality of our current lived experience. This is exponentially more likely to occur through written communication where there are no body language cues to guide intent.

[Grizz]

(Edited to add: I did not see GandalfPC's post before adding this.)

I have read this through twice and I'm struggling to see what the issue is here. As I read it, Lorenzo is being pretty straightforward and understanding considering that, as has been mentioned here many times, and recently in the Odd Fellows Kickstarter comments, running a Kickstarter campaign can be incredibly stressful, let alone running two.

I can appreciate that you were most likely just trying to be helpful by replying to other users questions and issues, but try to see it from Lorenzo's point of view; as he mentioned, just because he hasn't commented in the public section, it doesn't mean that he hasn't dealt with it privately. And specifically regarding Shawna Watts' issue, mentioning that "a replacement deck maybe available" may cause further issues as, a deck may not bei available, and you may have unwittingly given her false hope.

You are, of course, free to interpret Lorenzo's words in your own way; I just can't see it myself.



I know major printers require a 10% overrun. I seal was a sticker which is easy to reprint. I would assume that Lotrek has one extra box. Even if the box and sticker were impossible, the playing cards themselves could have been sent. I'm pretty sure you will see deck from Eye of the Ocean available on Stockholm17, but I may have read the the newsletter and Patreon message wrong.

[Grizz]

I think this is a clear case of miscommunication/misinterpretation. When something triggers us based on our past experiences, it can often be incredibly difficult to see how our own assumptions shape the reality of our current lived experience. This is exponentially more likely to occur through written communication where there are no body language cues to guide intent.

This was one of the points I was trying to make.

[Grizz]

Does Lorenzo/Stockholm17/Requiem Team have an account here? I thought he did. There is a reply posted on Kickstarter but not here.

He did prove one of my points in his reply. Lorenzo is in charge of all refunds. That makes him a creator by Kickstarter ToS.

He started asking for my PayPal address. It's interesting that he is doing that NOW.

[GandalfPC]

It is not interesting that it is happening now, it is understandable. As you have requested account deletion I don’t see the point in continued shots across the bow. Points have been made.

It is certainly up to Lorenzo to issue a refund, or not, if he is not required to do so - whatever he decides will surly meet or exceed the requirements he is under.

[Grizz]

Why not keep shooting until my account is deleted?

Lorenzo sent me refunds for Patreon. He didn't need to do that. I told him to keep everything as a gift.

[Grizz]

Just to clarify. The refund is a nice thing. I just don't think Lorenzo will mention it. I am not COMPLETELY unreasonable.

[Strag]

How about you just stop?

[Harvonsgard]

Some like to crash into a brick wall and then blame it on the brick wall .

[kasuma99]

Mental disability is never a joke, and it's not your fault Grizz ever that you got affected by it and interpret the situation different than it should be.
It's also not S17's fault to not have experience dealing with your mental disability before talking to you and the best thing to do in these cases: when 2 sides aren't at fault and still can't be happy with each other then they should just part away.
I think this is why Lorenzo: after a while trying to make things work with you now understand nothing more can be done and decided to refund you so you can go your way in peace.
P/s: thank to all of you i learned a most valuable thing from this exchange: LOL means Laugh Out Loud, not Love Our Life.