Monte Carlo Diffractor (OATH x VXD)

[VXD]

EPIC TEASER HERE :

https://youtu.be/K-Qz2gg7lXg" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[shkorc]

Your communication on the London Diffractor project is severly lacking. Please address it as soon as possible to avoid casting any shadows on the new project.

Thank you!

[VXD]

Shkorc

The last update for London Diffractor was February 12th. Did you miss the last post I made on London Diffractor thread, late last week, which says another update is coming shortly?
I just checked in again and we have answered all apart from 2 new PM's as well (April 14th and April 21st).
The last update gave the status and since that time the whole world has been in lockdown, as you know. A further update will be posted when we have further useful information to disseminate. The world is in a once in a lifetime event here. Everyone is doing their best to navigate it and keep the wheels moving.

Thanks.

[Bradius]

Okay, I’d love to get my current Kickstarter before thinking about your next attack on my wallet. However, your teaser got my attention! Feel free to share (lots) more information.

[VXD]

Hey Brad

Thanks. Yes, we are totally aware that people don't like a project launching while another is outstanding for delivery. Hence 2021. That, plus Lotrek and we are thinking up a masterpiece Diffractor, very carefully. It may take a while. So honoured to be working with him on this.

As stated here to all before, we'll never accept money from collectors for a new deck, while another is outstanding. Never gonna happen.

Hope you're well.

[brownsl]

That, plus Lotrek and we are thinking up a masterpiece Diffractor, very carefully. It may take a while. So honoured to be working with him on this.

[Harvonsgard]

What the f*** did I just witnessed? Did I just really watched a VXD x Oath teaser?
Is this reality? Can somebody pinch me?

[BaconWise]

I think the diffractor tech is really fantastic, but this is the first time I'm very excited to see what it can become. The thought of non-standard courts and faces is very intriguing.

[Bradius]

Well, no doubt that Lotrek can do an amazing job, but I would like to see what Montenzi could do with this stuff. Consider him for the project after Monte Carlo. In the meantime, I will have my version of sugar plum fairies dancing in my head.

[gacktvam]

VXD x Oath !!!???

My wallet gotta hurts so much...

[PiazzaDelivery]

Oh boy... And here I thought that Crypt would be the only must-have at a triple digit price point I'd ever own.

Queue the Fry meme.

[VXD]

Going all-in, utilising our respective techniques and strengths.

Yes, also time for a departure from the standard courts and pips / faces

[Harvonsgard]

Will Lotrék only be involved in the design or will he be involved in the manufacturing process as well?

[PiazzaDelivery]

I'm curious to in see what recognizable items they associate to Monte-Carlo. I admit to being much more familiar with the common imagery related to Las Vegas and London, so this should be interesting.

[VXD]

Manufacturing too....probably a case of the sheets get Oath-ed up in Greece and then transported to Holland for diffractorizing or vice versa. Also, surely has to be Oath-manufactured tucks. We'll have tuck and metal case options, as is our convention now. I don't want to speak too much on behalf of Lotrek though....I'm sure you can all appreciate that. Still at early stages and a long way to go....planning, design, manufacture, fulfilment etc, all to be agreed. No guarantee this one will be a KS either.

[Harvonsgard]

Good to hear that. Pretty exciting news. I'm curious what the Greek Card Wizard will come up with and how this synergy will impact the card quality.

[OVSUB]

At least it's 2021.

[jerichoholic]

If delivery isn't until 2021 then there is no rush to launch a project, wait until the last one is fulfilled.

[MagikFingerz]

If delivery isn't until 2021 then there is no rush to launch a project, wait until the last one is fulfilled.

Gotta start that teasing though

[VXD]

I blame Hollywood

[Bradius]

[guru]

Well, no doubt that Lotrek can do an amazing job, but I would like to see what Montenzi could do with this stuff. Consider him for the project after Monte Carlo. In the meantime, I will have my version of sugar plum fairies dancing in my head.

Agree @Bradius.

I also believe Montenzi can knock it out of the park with diffractor tech.

[VXD]

There are many artists who could do a great job using our playing card tech. We are honoured and excited to work with Lotrek on this next one!

[montenzi]

There are many artists who could do a great job using our playing card tech. We are honoured and excited to work with Lotrek on this next one!

+100!

@Bradius and @guru: Thread hijacking detected. My comments: There is one fundamental difference (cold foil vs. VXD), which makes cold foil a winner for me. And for the same reason, I have no idea how to implement it. Cold foil is designed to be visible in good lighting conditions, but holographic foil is best under artificial lighting. It's just another approach created for a purpose. But I am on the light side.

[shermjack]

There are many artists who could do a great job using our playing card tech. We are honoured and excited to work with Lotrek on this next one!

+100!

@Bradius and @guru: Thread hijacking detected. My comments: There is one fundamental difference (cold foil vs. VXD), which makes cold foil a winner for me. And for the same reason, I have no idea how to implement it. Cold foil is designed to be visible in good lighting conditions, but holographic foil is best visible under artificial lighting. It's just another approach created for a purpose. But I am on the light side.

Come to the Dark Side

[VXD]

I don't understand really who is saying what or exactly what the light or dark side is , but it is easy to Google the differences between Hot Foil (VXD, Lotrek decks) and Cold Foil (All others, using Cartamundi).

Here is a useful, concise (pros & cons) breakdown for instance:

https://www.colorprintingpros.com/artic ... -printing/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[VXD]

Here's another useful link:

https://purelydigital.co.uk/hot-foil-bl ... ifference/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

This is HOT FOIL vs COLD FOIL. Both our transparent holographic and our metal foils are Hot Stamped on our Diffractors. Lotrek does the same.

We CANNOT USE PLAYING CARD FACTORIES, because they cannot offer Hot Foiling. Playing card factories specialise in every aspect of playing card production: Paper Supply, Printing Ink Artwork, Sorting, Cutting, Cello-wrapping. Then, a few years back, they introduced Cold Foiling, as an additional feature they can offer. They can offer this, as it is inline and much simpler to install and to operate into the process. Hot Foiling would be a nightmare for them to incorporate, hence they don't.

Now, the companies in the world that do offer Hot Foiling are all specialist / high-end 'Print-Finishers'. They have no historical experience with production of playing cards.

This is why Lotrek (and we) had all those early problems with the simple processes eg cutting, sorting, cello-wrapping etc. We approached the whole thing from the total opposite direction. Primary Objective: Using Hot Foil. Secondary objective: Work in all the standard playing card production processes. We had to find and then assist our print-finishers, to become playing card producers.

The pain and cost this has entailed, let me tell you...

But there was a purpose / reason. I'll leave it at that.

[VXD]

Actually the most important thing to consider for choosing a partner, for Diffractors, is not the foiling process used, it is the style of under-lying ink artwork that we would be diffractorizing. The key advantage with our transparent foil over any other, is that it is TRANSPARENT and hence can overlay the original artwork. You can't do this with Cold Foil or (non-transparent) Hot Foil....it is opaque. You either have foil, or inks in one area....it's not possible to have both. One will block the other out. Diffractors have two fully visible layers overlaying and un-impeding each other.

For us, what is important in the ink artwork style of a potential partner, is that it is predominantly 2D. So 3D characters for courts etc are just not suited to be diffractorized. Its hard to explain why, but if you have a Diffractor deck and inspect it, you may see why.

This is why the great 2D artists out there will be ideal for us to work with for our Diffractor City Series.....Montenzi, Lotrek, Gio to name a few.

Next year or latest 2022, we will open our 'Diffractor Service' too. At that point any historical famous deck can be made into a Diffractor. So even, for instance, a famous cardistry deck. Take the Virts for example. They print the original V1 deck and send the sheets to us....we diffractorize them however they want with custom Virts transparent holographics and we send the sheets back. That can be done FOR ANY HISTORICAL DECK...re-launched as a Diffractor. But again, this will work best with 2D type artwork decks.

[guru]

We CANNOT USE PLAYING CARD FACTORIES, because they cannot offer Hot Foiling.
................
Now, the companies in the world that do offer Hot Foiling are all specialist / high-end 'Print-Finishers'. They have no historical experience with production of playing cards......................
...............
This is why Lotrek (and we) had all those early problems with the simple processes eg cutting, sorting, cello-wrapping etc.

Can I ask from where did you get this information? I am asking this as it is not true.

Playing card factories have been offering hot foil. Divine Art (my first deck) used hot foil on card backs.

They have no historical experience with production of playing cards......................

Incorrect.

This is why Lotrek (and we) had all those early problems with the simple processes eg cutting, sorting, cello-wrapping etc.

The issue and my understanding after looking at and talking to different factories is this: If you choose a factory who does foil printing but has never done large production of playing cards, you will faceall those issues in cutting, sorting, cello-wrapping etc. My hypothesis about Lotrek's work is that he is using a printing company which is not primarly a playing card production co. I've seen many such high end print foil companies here in Australia too. The problem is that production becomes a pain as they do not have experience in playing card production. Lotrek has worked closely over the years with his printer and has perfected the production process but if a newbie does the same, he/she will again face similar issues. Seems like you have also faced such issues during production run of the first diffractor deck. The cost of doing a foiled deck or even a multi foiled deck is not high for the factory, it being a novelty and the potential of wastage and reprints required at their end, make them to increase the cost of a foiled deck, and the playing card designers increases it to 3x-12x the price at their end for the shiny objects. Cartamundi's cold foil is breaking that mould as it is more cheaper compared to a hot foiled deck.

Processes, technologies do improve over the time, I remember Expert's first foiled deck 4-5 years ago that used hot foil and now they have got the capability to print the best hd hot foil in the business of playing cards. I talked to Lawrence Sullivan (as both Expert n Legends share factories between them) and from there I got this info.

Hope that helps.

[VXD]

Guru

I'm not going to argue with you re what I said. I was however just about to edit and qualify what I said about who can hot foil....and mention EPCC specifically. They did offer to take on our Diffractor work and I spoke to Bill Kalush at length about the possibility. He is an innovator and a great guy and I still do not rule it out in future, but we are currently very happy with our Dutch print-finisher (Vrijdag Premium Printing), who specialise in Hot Foil and other high-end finishing techniques.

I can tell you this....we will never use Cold Foil for our decks. I have turned it down every time it has been offered to us (plenty). The reasons are written there in the links I posted.

For us also, it's about what we've now set up for the future. The possibilities are great, using a high-end, print-finisher. The next thing we're incorporating will be custom micro-embossing into our foils. For the Monte Carlo Diffractor we'll have it no doubt.