ENUMA PLAYING CARDS

[theCapraAegagrus]

OMG who decided that is INFERIOR?you have decks in your hands?NO, how you can say INFERIOR PRINTER?my collection made of over 700 decks, and i can say to you that some decks to all people exalted and overfunded in the first day are ever the same design and the poor quality of tuck and cards but all pledged because it's a great name?I know some Swisse and Austrian collectors that hard hating the "made in Taiwan"..but you PrincessTrouble from your pulpit saying and decide before see that the LPCC it's good and NPCC inferior, so in other part or the worlds other collectors (like swisse and austrian my friends) are stupid? , and you report to Kickstarter for what?I respect all features and i increased the features, my supplier changed totally the scheduling time and if i respect the standard quality i can change my supplier for not occur in mistakes.
you talking about misrepresentation? i'm sure if i meet you and give to you 2 cards one NPCC and one LPCC maybe you inverted!How can say that?and you ?How can say my final product its inferior before you have in your hands?
You backed for advertised printer?? Be a real collector mean appreciated the ART first ! I bet that i put a blank card with a single black point but PRINTING BY LPCC you backed right??Omg be serious, if you backed, backed for the art not for the printer, and if great Artist use NPCC maybe NPCC it's a reliable partner, and for me it's this.
Please if you want reported me wherever you want, do it, but don try to forced other people to do that, because any single collector it's different fortunately.
Sorry for that guys, but i'm tired after 2 years of hard work this "character" reported me for misrepresentation..it's a joke?
After this message i stopped to answer in this forum about this my decisions, but i pretend respect for me and for my work because i ever give that to all of you, so if someone need to speak with me can contact directly in my email. Thank you again to all constructive people, and to all people that appreciated and backed my art, i wait your feedback when you receive the decks.claude

NPCC is factually, scientifically, worse than LPCC.

You're delusional if you disagree.

Your backers paid for decks printed by LPCC. If you have any integrity you will refund those who do not want your decks printed by poop.

[Bradius]

If you are counting the number of backers not happy with the move to NPCC, you can add me to that list. I would rather deal with LPCC’s delays. I would rather have a better quality deck. We have gone over that NPC just doesn’t make playing cards that handle well. Most of us would recommend either USPCC or Cartimundi. LPCC using the Taiwan factory is also good. As you can tell, around here changing the card manufacturer after the Kickstarter is a big deal to us, more than delays. Please understand, we have fronted our cash to help bring this to life. Many backers will not say one way or the other. Some will be fine with the change, but I assure you many will not be happy with the change and will remember it when you start your next campaign. I don’t want a refund. I will get whatever is produced, but I am disappointed.

[theCapraAegagrus]

...I don’t want a refund. I will get whatever is produced...

You suck.

[akicer]

OMG who decided that is INFERIOR?you have decks in your hands?

Yes I have multiple NPCC decks, in my hands.

my collection made of over 700 decks, and i can say to you that some decks to all people exalted and overfunded in the first day are ever the same design and the poor quality of tuck and cards but all pledged because it's a great name?

I believe most people replied to this thread has more decks than you do. We are not competing on the number of decks in our collections (well if you want to go down that path, good luck to you). LPCC is not the best, but better than NPCC, and we are making the point here.

you talking about misrepresentation? i'm sure if i meet you and give to you 2 cards one NPCC and one LPCC maybe you inverted!

it's very easy to tell the difference, wanna make a $1000 bet on that? Send me two decks. And yes, switching the printer is one of the biggest misrepresentations in a playing cards campagin.

You backed for advertised printer?? Be a real collector mean appreciated the ART first ! I bet that i put a blank card with a single black point but PRINTING BY LPCC you backed right??Omg be serious, if you backed, backed for the art not for the printer, and if great Artist use NPCC maybe NPCC it's a reliable partner, and for me it's this.

we back both the art and the quality of handling, since we are PLAYING CARDS collector. That been said, the reason we pull the trigger and help with the funding is a combination of a lot different reasons. Design is one of the key reasons, but not the only one.

[RichK]

Akicer dont' worry i know i'm not Nikolai im never thinking to compare, i simply answer to you, try to ask to yourself why NIkolai print with NPCC if in your way of thinking the quality of NPCC it's inferior.
which artist chooses on purpose a lower quality for his work? if you can give me a good answer i'm happy to speak about

NemesisFactory,

Nicolai lives in Norway I believe, Europe at least, so printing with NPCC makes logistical and shipping sense. He states up front who he is printing with. He doesn't say he's printing with one company then change it after funding is over and allegedly started.

I didn't back your project but hope you'll update offering refunds to those who might not be as vocal as others.

[PrincessTrouble]

I've handled over a thousand different decks. Yes, taken them out of the box and handled them. Not a thousand of the same deck but a thousand different decks. I don't like NPCC decks. Their handling is inferior by a mile.

Feel free to ask anyone here about my character.

For others wondering about refunds, he replied to my Kickstarter message and said he might refund me at the end of the campaign when he has the decks produced. I would not recommend backing this guy ever again.

[Magic Tapp]

I understand that the creator of the project has worked and re-worked those decks for a long time and has therefore become emotionally attached to them but I am baffled to see how hostile and belligerent he has become.

Now, I would not necessarily call him “ignorant” as this word has quite a negative connotation and Decknowledgy has come up with a much more fitting “ill-informed” adjective but digging your heels and snapping at the people who are expressing their views on the printer will not get you far.

NemesisFactory - please try and understand that the reason people (myself included) have become irritated is not because of who the printer is but because of the switch that happened well after the campaign and the fact that you decided not even to consult your backers and are sticking to your belief that you are not jeopardising quality by going to NPCC. You may well believe that but do respect other people’s views and have the courtesy to ask them for their thoughts and be courteous enough to offer refunds to those who would rather not get an NPCC deck. It would be like offering your backers a Dell laptop but then telling them that it would take too long to get one and you have decided to send you them an Asus one. You can think that they are not that different but people who were promised a Dell may not want anything else.

If you offered NPCC as a printer from day one, people would make their investment decision with that in mind. In the playing cards world, for many, the choice of printer is at least as (if not more than) important as the art itself.

[PipChick]

Ya know, as a first-time creator that has absolutely NO reputation prior to this campaign, your backers took a HUGE leap of faith in trusting you and your ability to produce the product you advertised/promised to in campaigning funds for; and this decision to make such a critical change in printer - and only disclosing it AFTER the funding period had closed - greatly compromises the original representation of the product as the quality is much lower than what was advertised/promised/expected from backers when they originally put up their cash to help fund for its production. And, doing so without seeking any input from backers, or even telling them prior to sending the deck into production, really makes me, a potential future backer, wary to ever trust you based on this seemingly small decision.

When I pledge, I'm doing so with the confidence and faith in the creator that the deck promised is going to be the deck produced - this will not be the case for this project and your reasoning in making the printer change to avoid delays is baffling as it not only greatly compromises the integrity of the product originally advertised, but more importantly, you, as a reliable creator that can run a campaign with total transparency, since this was/is not the case as proven in this change.

Furthermore, by citing the success of other projects using the same printer shows not only your ignorance - yes, ignorance - but also your arrogance because you're clearly blind to the fact that those designers/companies a.) were transparent in their choice of printer from the get-go and backers were well-informed prior to making their pledge and b.), more significantly, have years of experience and *several* successfully fulfilled projects from which they've built up a reliable and reputable company that has earned a loyal following and respect within the community through open and honest communication and transparency to deliver the product they originally sought funds to produce and promised to backers - qualities you've failed to provide and are no longer able to deliver on because NPCC ≠ LPCC, no matter how many times you insult us and all other playing card enthusiasts by trying to claim that we wouldn't be able to tell the difference.

Good luck with any and all future endeavors, but know that even though we all might not be affected backers, we're all still watching and your next steps could make or break your reputation and the support we'd be willing to offer in any other projects you may be a part of in the future.

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To anyone/everyone that did back this project: Let 2019 be the year we all hold ALL creators to a higher standard and demand that we get the products that we paid our hard earned cash to fund production for as advertised. If any part of the campaign is not as advertised/promised at the time at which you pledged - ESPECIALLY if those changes were not discussed with backers and backers were not given the opportunity to provide input into the direction of the project prior to a final decision being made - DEMAND A REFUND. And if the creator won't give it to you, file a claim for fraud with your credit card company as that is not what you paid for. Don't keep allowing creators to blatantly disregard backers and their voices in such decisions by not even allowing them the opportunity to have a say in the matter - you are the ones that give projects life after all! You deserve the respect to be acknowledged since you are the ones whom these decisions affect.

And if you're not a backer of this project, stand in solidarity of those backers and don't support such creators until they do right by them - otherwise, you'll be in the same boat as them sooner or later by another creator in another project. We are stronger together so don't let those affected backers, in this project or J&T's or others, fend for themselves in dealing with such matters because they can ignore a few, but they can't ignore all of us.

At this point, I'm just so 'effing fed up of this BS that I'm starting my own crusade against such creators and to wholeheartedly advocate for backers and their interests - I'm campaigning to make 2019 the year we demand more from KS and creators and stop allowing them to kick us around with decisions made without our input and not in our best interests. This just has to stop.

/rant

[Decknowledgy]

@NemesisFactoryCards

You have 700 decks, but..... do you fan? I mean not clumpy fans, but even, beautiful round fans?
Or do you have any B9 Linen finish decks in your 700 decks?

If you do, I don't believe you can't tell the difference between B9, air-cusioned, linoid, diamond.... etc. handling.
NPCC decks just don't fan evenly, they don't glide well from card to card, and they smell of ink right out of the box.
So yeah, NPCC = hardest to fan well + smelliest deck
Please remember this universal formula

I don't need 700 decks to know that, just 3 NPCC decks.

[Bradius]

I believe one of the owners or operators of NPCC has come here before, and I appreciated their willingness to engage the community and their desire to be a top playing card manufacturer. Honestly though, they just don't handle great. I haven't noticed the smell, but then again I don't have a great sense of smell. Now that I think about it, I like the smell of ink (usually). I don't mind having some of their decks as I am mainly a collector rather than a cardist. For cardistry, forget about using NPCC. They do make some nice tucks, but frankly so does LPCC. I have quite a few NPCC decks and even to my untrained hands, there is no comparision to USPCC or Cartamundi. LPCC does put out some excelent cards. They are especially good with registration (an issue with USPCC) and their handling is still very good.

I do hope NPCC is able to improve their cards, but as of a few months ago, I haven't seen it.

Most, if not all, of the people commenting here have well over 1,000 playing cards in their collection and have handled cards from many, many different manufacturers.

[theCapraAegagrus]

...I like the smell of ink (usually)...

What about glue?

Last I remember - the NPCC employee became frustrated with the collective opinions here. We unanimously stated that USPCC, EPCC-Taiwan, and Cartamundi are better AINEC. They claimed that they are making improvements to their finishes. I don't recall seeing them since then.

[RichK]

He was Roman Kotiv, someone from NPCC.

[Eric Lee]

A quick search reveals that Roman Kotiv isn't just someone or an employee of NPCC. He's the publisher.
Roman Kotiv" (Lviv, Ukraine) publisher since 2011

Pity he quit before proving us wrong about NPCC handling. MPC, with their Linen Air stock and finish shown in their Chao deck, has upped their game to bring them close, if not at LPCC/EPCC level. So NPCC now has to play catch up with MPC as well.

[Jocu]

First thing you should do when creating something - know your audience.

Claude has made a huge mistake assuming his audience is 'playing card collectors who appreciate art'. That's not even a market, that's a subgroup of a niche market.

The very least I would expect from any product is that it be fit for purpose. Playing cards that don't handle well are not fit for purpose.

As a card magician - one of those other large slices of playing card buyers/collectors - handling is the single most important thing I care about when buying a deck. In fact, I won't even buy something that's not buy USPCC or Cartamundi unless it's an incredibly unique design and even then I won't be buying it because it's a deck of cards, it will be to own something unique.

Add cardists to this, to whom handling is even more important, and you're not just alienating a huge chunk of your backers but also patronising them.

It would be like taking orders from 1000 people for a Ferrari and then swapping it out for a tractor. "They both cost about the same price and can drive you around, what's the problem??"

[sms69x]

I do hope NPCC is able to improve their cards, but as of a few months ago, I haven't seen it.

I lost faith in them long ago... First deck I handled from NPCC was Chivalry (Design Imperator/Nicolai), and it wasn't that bad (consedering a fairly new company), after that they produced Indictus (Nicolai Aaroe - 2015) which is quite good handling wise (have not handled that for some time, but it was good), and I thought NPCC was in the right direction, but unfortunatelly couldn't be more wrong... After that all decks procuced by NPCC are gift shop quality (with nice tuck boxes), but the thing that pisses me off is the fact that they still price their decks at USPCC level... So in 3 years they couldn't improve just a bit, they are all about profit, quality is not essential for them...

I would have no problem backing this campaign even it being NPCC from the start, but the price per deck shouldn't be above $4 - $5, but asking $13(??!!) for this type of crap, NO THANKS.

Now this maneuver from a first time creator is just something unreal... Even worst is the fact that the creator thinks he have all the right to do whatever he wants with the backers money (as if it is his money). I wish good luck to everyone of the backers in receiving a refund or at least a crapy deck of playing cards. I know for sure this is one of those creators that will not ever see a single penny of my money.

[Decknowledgy]

They just released an update yesterday with videos of the final product ready for shipping:
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/76 ... ts/2481466

Here's photos of the decks:

screenshot-www.kickstarter.com-2019.04.17-11-56-21.png (402.72 KiB) Viewed 2433 times

screenshot-www.kickstarter.com-2019.04.17-11-57-00.png (289.86 KiB) Viewed 2433 times

[vasta41]

I have yet again asked for a refund in lieu of the decks.

[Bradius]

I was not wild about the change, but I think your reaction is a bit over the top. I don’t think anything is to be gained by thrashing this more. I am looking forward to the decks, but not participating in their new campaign for a lot of reasons. Mainly, I am backing a lot of other campaigns.

[vasta41]

I was not wild about the change, but I think your reaction is a bit over the top. I don’t think anything is to be gained by thrashing this more. I am looking forward to the decks, but not participating in their new campaign for a lot of reasons. Mainly, I am backing a lot of other campaigns.

Thrashing? I pledged my hard-earned money for some decks of playing cards. The number one component of playing cards is paper. The designer BLINDLY changed the manufacturer of the number one component of the very thing he's selling AFTER the campaign ended. While others may differ I find this to be a HUGE deal. But regardless I do not find my behavior to be "thrashing." Although I was duped and paid for one thing and will most likely be getting another I think I've been pretty level-headed about this whole thing. I have only kindly and respectfully asked for a refund. How is that thrashing?

And while you think there's nothing to be gained I disagree once again. Worst case scenario I do not get my refund. But at least the creator knows that his wrongful actions of advertising one thing and selling another were not tolerated by everyone. And maybe he'll think twice about doing it again (if he even gets another chance).

If you (or anyone else who pledged and didn't complain) are taking this lying down that's your prerogative. But shame on you for allowing the creator to think what he did is acceptable. Strength in numbers, people...

[Magic Tapp]

I was not wild about the change, but I think your reaction is a bit over the top. I don’t think anything is to be gained by thrashing this more. I am looking forward to the decks, but not participating in their new campaign for a lot of reasons. Mainly, I am backing a lot of other campaigns.

Thrashing? I pledged my hard-earned money for some decks of playing cards. The number one component of playing cards is paper. The designer BLINDLY changed the manufacturer of the number one component of the very thing he's selling AFTER the campaign ended. While others may differ I find this to be a HUGE deal. But regardless I do not find my behavior to be "thrashing." Although I was duped and paid for one thing and will most likely be getting another I think I've been pretty level-headed about this whole thing. I have only kindly and respectfully asked for a refund. How is that thrashing?

And while you think there's nothing to be gained I disagree once again. Worst case scenario I do not get my refund. But at least the creator knows that his wrongful actions of advertising one thing and selling another were not tolerated by everyone. And maybe he'll think twice about doing it again (if he even gets another chance).

If you (or anyone else who pledged and didn't complain) are taking this lying down that's your prerogative. But shame on you for allowing the creator to think what he did is acceptable. Strength in numbers, people...

Vasta and I tend to look at many things quite differently but we are definitely in agreement on this one. This behaviour should not be tolerated, otherwise we will soon see more of those premium Australian cotton bags...

[hsbc]

Especially on Kickstarter, it's extremely important to deliver what you promised - people back and drop projects based on printers

[theCapraAegagrus]

I was not wild about the change, but I think your reaction is a bit over the top. I don’t think anything is to be gained by thrashing this more. I am looking forward to the decks, but not participating in their new campaign for a lot of reasons. Mainly, I am backing a lot of other campaigns.

Thrashing? I pledged my hard-earned money for some decks of playing cards. The number one component of playing cards is paper. The designer BLINDLY changed the manufacturer of the number one component of the very thing he's selling AFTER the campaign ended. While others may differ I find this to be a HUGE deal. But regardless I do not find my behavior to be "thrashing." Although I was duped and paid for one thing and will most likely be getting another I think I've been pretty level-headed about this whole thing. I have only kindly and respectfully asked for a refund. How is that thrashing?

And while you think there's nothing to be gained I disagree once again. Worst case scenario I do not get my refund. But at least the creator knows that his wrongful actions of advertising one thing and selling another were not tolerated by everyone. And maybe he'll think twice about doing it again (if he even gets another chance).

If you (or anyone else who pledged and didn't complain) are taking this lying down that's your prerogative. But shame on you for allowing the creator to think what he did is acceptable. Strength in numbers, people...

[MagikFingerz]

I wonder what vasta could have done/written to get that last half star?

[theCapraAegagrus]

I wonder what vasta could have done/written to get that last half star?

He wasn't brutal enough.

[Bradius]

I get it folks. I am in for several of these decks too. And yes, I did note the huge change in the designer from before the campaign to afterward. I remember all the support we gave from the early design to the failed first try and the successful second try, including long discussions about printers, only to have him change on us. I get it. However, I also remember for years many here would bash every project of Jackson Robinson due to a similar switch in printers during a campaign. To the point that Jackson withdrew from further discussions here for the longest time. Folks just wouldn't get past it. Would I have preferred the designer taken his time and printed with who he said he would, of course. But, I am not rabid about it either. I will be getting my decks. Since I am likely not going to take them out of the box and do fans and flourishes with them, it doesn't have the huge negative that it does for cardists (I recognize I am in a different place than cardists in this respect). That said, I am not backing his new campaign. Mainly though because it is just a color variant, which doesn't get me excited. Partly though this did leave a bit of a bad taste in my mouth.

I do hope he learns from this. I hope he chooses USPCC or Cartamundi in the future. However, even if he does, I probably will sit out that campaign and get the decks in the aftermarket. He will need to rebuild his reputation before I will back him. I get that. I hope he does. But, I am not going to thrash him every time he launches a campaign. I will watch, and hope he makes better choices. I don't want this place to always focus on every hurt and wrong. I don't want us to just dismiss stuff, but don't forever throw folks into the trash bin either.

[theCapraAegagrus]

I get it folks. I am in for several of these decks too. And yes, I did note the huge change in the designer from before the campaign to afterward. I remember all the support we gave from the early design to the failed first try and the successful second try, including long discussions about printers, only to have him change on us. I get it. However, I also remember for years many here would bash every project of Jackson Robinson due to a similar switch in printers during a campaign. To the point that Jackson withdrew from further discussions here for the longest time. Folks just wouldn't get past it. Would I have preferred the designer taken his time and printed with who he said he would, of course. But, I am not rabid about it either. I will be getting my decks. Since I am likely not going to take them out of the box and do fans and flourishes with them, it doesn't have the huge negative that it does for cardists (I recognize I am in a different place than cardists in this respect). That said, I am not backing his new campaign. Mainly though because it is just a color variant, which doesn't get me excited. Partly though this did leave a bit of a bad taste in my mouth.

I do hope he learns from this. I hope he chooses USPCC or Cartamundi in the future. However, even if he does, I probably will sit out that campaign and get the decks in the aftermarket. He will need to rebuild his reputation before I will back him. I get that. I hope he does. But, I am not going to thrash him every time he launches a campaign. I will watch, and hope he makes better choices. I don't want this place to always focus on every hurt and wrong. I don't want us to just dismiss stuff, but don't forever throw folks into the trash bin either.

He doesn't have a reputation to rebuild.

The JR incident wasn't a matter of baiting-and-switching printers. It was a matter of which EPCC location it was printed at. People were/are bothered by the tuck saying, "Printed in Taiwan", when it was printed at the new Chinese facility. I don't know what happened behind the scenes, but my educated guess is that the tucks were submitted/printed, and then he was prompted with printed at the new facility. That's not confirmed, though.

The difference - Jackson has a HUGE reputation. This creator does not. For a new creator to pull a bait-and-switch, and then launch ANOTHER campaign after the 1st robbery hasn't completed fulfillment, is a HUGE red flag.

You could mostly trust JR based on his years of good faith. The new guy? Come on...

[STLBluesNut]

What is the new campaign? Is it under a different name? I looked for another under the name that did Enuma but I just see the first cancelled Enuma there.

Sent from my Galaxy 8 using Tapatalk

[Bradius]

My bad. I was thinking of the new EPHERMID campaign by Mr. Cup.

[PrincessTrouble]

I just re-requested my refund as well.

[PipChick]

I have long ago already said my piece on the matter and, even though I can emphasize with Bradius' point of view in not wanting to incessantly to beat a dead horse on the wrongs of a creator and immediately resorting to trashing 'em - especially rookies for their stumbles and fumbles as they most certainly have a steep learning curve in understanding the market and making such decisions - Brad's obviously a much better person than I am and far too good for the world. Love ya B but I too side with the refunders...

Perhaps if this wasn't an already far too common occurrence in the KS world, I'd be more willing to give a pass to forgive and forget... but until then, you're most certainly right in that we'll all just have to wait and see how the creator proceeds to handle addressing refunds and offering resolutions to dissatisfied backers for his erroneous decision to go with another printer and how he'll move forward in the next campaign to determine if he's a reputable creator we wanna stand behind again. Only time will tell...