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Bikefanatic wrote: ↑Mon Nov 23, 2020 9:53 pm I got my Premium Lite, now I'm alright. No more stress, now I can rest.

..... wait until you see the Tempest STORM edition.





I KID, I KID.

TheGentlemanWake wrote: ↑Mon Nov 23, 2020 9:55 pm

Bikefanatic wrote: ↑Mon Nov 23, 2020 9:53 pm I got my Premium Lite, now I'm alright. No more stress, now I can rest.

..... wait until you see the Tempest STORM edition.





I KID, I KID.

Go right ahead, make it a silver tuck........ if you were, you're gonna give people high blood pressure and more of a fit.

TheGentlemanWake wrote: ↑Mon Nov 23, 2020 9:55 pm

Bikefanatic wrote: ↑Mon Nov 23, 2020 9:53 pm I got my Premium Lite, now I'm alright. No more stress, now I can rest.

..... wait until you see the Tempest STORM edition.





I KID, I KID.

There'd be riots in the stree- I mean forums

TheGentlemanWake wrote: ↑Mon Nov 23, 2020 9:55 pm

Bikefanatic wrote: ↑Mon Nov 23, 2020 9:53 pm I got my Premium Lite, now I'm alright. No more stress, now I can rest.

..... wait until you see the Tempest STORM edition.





I KID, I KID.

Truth is I've learned quite a bit on this project. I took for granted that Lotrek was a known commodity and that his pricing structure was well known as well. That clearly is not the case. I also learned that there is a fairly significant subset of the community that would rather not have any decks if they can have all the decks in a given release. This is especially unique to me as despite being a collector I have long since come to grips with fomo being something I'm just gonna feel. Thing is, despite that, i don't think it will dissuade me from pursuing a limited deck release on the next campaign either. I want Lotrek to print a version of the TGW x Kevin Cantrell deck with Lotrek flair. That one will be highly limited and I can only imagine people will not like it. Am I hurting the brand by doing that? It's really a crazy experience to have people spit venom at me and accuse me of disrespecting the community by asking for prices commensurate with previous releases. I've seen other artists/designers charge $65 for a gilded cartamundi deck--we offer them for $45. ANd to argue that the prices are ridiculous? How can that be when 200 people saw the value in it to sell out in less than an hour? It's been kinda of enlightening and terrifying.

I definitely think it’s fine to have a limited deck in any campaign, but maybe think about another way of offering as opposed to bundled up with a bunch of other decks. I get it that you are trying to award the top tier backers as well as maximize revenue, but it does leave a bad taste in some people’s mouths as you have discovered.

Maybe offer the Limited deck by itself at a significantly higher price than it would be in the bundle, thus giving people an option to pay FULL price for the limited deck or get a deal within a bundle. For example, the cost of the Prism deck in the Premium bundle was $125...you could offer it by itself for $175-200. Anyways, just a thought...in the end, you aren’t gonna make everyone happy, but this would at least give people the option of getting the deck without having to get extra/other decks that they would rather not have.

Like the Kiyosakis' say, "don't say I can't afford it, ask yourself how can I afford it."

First, I want to be clear that my criticism is always representing solely my opinion and is not meant in any shape or form personal or disrespectful. I respect choices made by others. My opinion stays my opinion as long as not convinced otherwise though, mileage my vary and it can always be shrugged off with a:



I think it's a bit of an overreaction to speak of venom being spit at your way - don't let single, out of the line comments mud the water. That's solely judged in regards to this thread though, I don't know what happend on other platforms. Maybe I'm wrong here and you got a lot of unnecessary flack elsewhere. Keep in mind, the success proves you right.
I can see that it is sometimes hard to get to the gist of the criticism if you are very passionate about your hobby and your brand (which is a good thing).

I was surprised too, that the pricing is a point of friction for some. Not saying it's not allowed to disagree but I'd say your offerings regarding the price are more than fair.
I had a friend asking me why Tempest Dynastinae is more expensive than Parlour Dynastinae. His words were, "It's almost on Crypt level" - I simply replied that - technically - the deck is on Crypt level, from a production point of view and that it is printed in Greece as well oppossed to being a Cartamundi deck. Maybe you indeed should specify the technical features more to educate people why something comes with a higher price tag.

TheGentlemanWake wrote: ↑Tue Nov 24, 2020 3:01 am I want Lotrek to print a version of the TGW x Kevin Cantrell deck with Lotrek flair. That one will be highly limited and I can only imagine people will not like it. Am I hurting the brand by doing that?

Yes and no, imo.
I guess your success proves you right, again. Were I disagree though are two things:
First, why does it have to be highly limited? I understand that Printed in Greece has capacity limits to an extent but 200 decks is certainly not that. Two hundred is - and as someone who has marketing and brand experience certainly knows that - artificial hype! It is fueling the "I can't have it - now I want it even more"-mechanism which I don't think is gentlemen like - to abuse human shortcomings and psychological tricks.
Feel free to disagree or to convince me from the opposite. Again, just my opinion; not meant as a personal attack or something.
I think it's a misconception that rare has something to do with value or that it is offering real value to the card community. The value of Prism and this Dynastinae is in the heart, blood, sweat and tears Lotrék and you have put into it's creation and upcoming realisation. That, is offered value for me.
I know that there is a subset of collectors that only feel satisfaction when being able to own something that others can't own. But who else is pleased with a as small as possible print run? Sincerely asking.

The second thing is the distribution model you picked. And don't get me wrong, I can see why you choose the way you did. It makes sense from a marketing and business perspective, no doubt about it. Lotrék mentioning the limited structure of Kickstarter has sure something to do with it as well. It's just that I see other options. Buy X to get Y, is something I'll never support.
Sherman offered a good solution. A seperate follow-up campaign like Venexiana Gold would be an option, too. And yes, I do understand that every choosen solution has valid points of critic as well.
I feel like the root of the problem is simply the fixation on the most intricate deck has to be the most limited.

Despite my criticism and not being a backer, I tip my hat to you and congratulate Lotrék and you to the well deserved success of your campaign.
Would I run things differently? Hell yah! Does that take anything away from you and the work you've put into this? Hell no!
You worked hard for and like Montenzi said, there is nothing you have to apologize for.

Backed a pair and I will most likely buy Dynastinae off ebay because this is all I want from this campaign. I don't like when someone forces me to purchase stuff I don't need to get what I want while calling it "added value". If anything it's just extra stuff I don't care to store or flip. If the premium deck is worth $300 or $500 just price it accordingly and call it a day. This whole buy-more-to-get-it change-tier-everyday charade looks amateurish to me and it's not befitting a premium brand.

There's a premium tier currently available.

Rez, in part I completely understand where you are coming from but allow me to interject... what has been hard to explain to people is that without the standard decks in this campaign (where the majority of the funding and profit exists) the limited and expensive decks DO NOT HAPPEN. Flat out. The business model COLLAPSES. Somehow this is being overlooked. Additionally, the notion that TGW is a 'premium brand' is appreciated and I'm happy to hear that its at least considered enough of one to be somewhat diminished by what you think are unfair practices. WHEN in reality we are a young brand. A small company. We've had two campaigns totaling about $320k in funding. That may sound like a lot to you in theory but trust me thats peanuts to most 'premium' brands. Therefore some learning curves are going to happen.

I'm sorry I lost you as a backer. Again thats the last thing I want. I want everyone to be excited to receive their decks. In fact I really believe the Ocean and Dusk editions are probably some of the most elegant and premium 'standard' decks on offer anywhere. The Midnight and Treasured even more so. To insinuate that the Dynastinae is the only thing worth while out of an ultimate tier package is insulting--not to me--but to lotrek who's put his heart and soul into realizing this design.

HAVING SAID ALL THAT... for those folks in the Ultimate and Premium tier black friday will not be about selling but instead be truly be about us giving thanks to them.

It was a Premium Lite available, I got on KS with the quickness hoping it was the first tier. I'm glad with my Lite anyway. Also you never know who wouldn't want their Dynastinae deck...

Bikefanatic wrote: ↑Tue Nov 24, 2020 4:38 pm It was a Premium Lite available, I got on KS with the quickness hoping it was the first tier. I'm glad with my Lite anyway. Also you never know who wouldn't want their Dynastinae deck...

My apologies. Correct the LITE

@Harvonsgard: I love how you always put that stress accent in my name.

It's in your signature on my Oath decks so I thought I roll with it .

A little bling for those OG premium tier backers...

Everyone else is free to add-on at $40

p.s. sorry for the sideways pics

Omar, I experienced something very similar, and all the old timers that were around when I originally launched the first Silver Arrows Kickstarter will remember.

The similar experience I speak of is placing a limited deck within a bundle and making that the only way you could get it.

I did this with the first Silver Arrow Kickstarter, I had a limited deck that you could only get by buying a brick of which the decks were priced super low at around $6 per deck I think.

The first Silver Arrows Kickstarter was my first experiment with high volume low retail price. That coupled with the limited deck being held within a bundle made the project fail, and I canceled it. The majority (not all) of my followers didn't want high volume low retail and they didn't want to have to be barricaded by a bundle to get a limited deck.

On the contrary, the voiced their opinions loud and clear and wanted even more limited releases. It is that failed experiment that directly lead to the Premium Tally Ho series starting with The Scarlett Tally Hos.

My two cents...

The metal card doesn't look "tempesty" enough, imho, to me it looks too new and for some reason the finish actually reminds me of these modern urns :S Apologies for the association.

shkorc wrote: ↑Wed Nov 25, 2020 10:19 am The metal card doesn't look "tempesty" enough, imho, to me it looks too new and for some reason the finish actually reminds me of these modern urns :S Apologies for the association.

Sorry you feel that way. But I think it looks great.

JacksonRobinson wrote: ↑Wed Nov 25, 2020 7:48 am Omar, I experienced something very similar, and all the old timers that were around when I originally launched the first Silver Arrows Kickstarter will remember.

The similar experience I speak of is placing a limited deck within a bundle and making that the only way you could get it.

I did this with the first Silver Arrow Kickstarter, I had a limited deck that you could only get by buying a brick of which the decks were priced super low at around $6 per deck I think.

The first Silver Arrows Kickstarter was my first experiment with high volume low retail price. That coupled with the limited deck being held within a bundle made the project fail, and I canceled it. The majority (not all) of my followers didn't want high volume low retail and they didn't want to have to be barricaded by a bundle to get a limited deck.

On the contrary, the voiced their opinions loud and clear and wanted even more limited releases. It is that failed experiment that directly lead to the Premium Tally Ho series starting with The Scarlett Tally Hos.

My two cents...

Thanks JR. I’m definitely learning. Next campaign will have some differences. Limited decks won’t go away for me either.

I think the metal card looks great too. That's one hell of a card guard eh?
If it weighs enough would make a pretty shnazzy weight for after deck cleaning too.

Someone fill me in on what the card guard is used for? The metal card looks to me too just to have.

Its for when you're playing poker. You put it on your cards so nobody can see them accidentally

I've been on the fence about pledging from the start and have visited the campaign page literally every day.

I've just now decided to pledge as the tucks are beautiful and, despite my rule generally being not to buy decks with standard courts, these courts are really nice. When I was deciding which tier to choose, I noticed that someone had cancelled their "The Complete Tempest PREMIUM Tier LITE" pledge and so I took it as a sign and grabbed it quick; I wouldn't normally go for such an expensive tier but that Prism variation looks to be awesome.

2 premium tier LITES available!

Timmargh wrote: ↑Wed Nov 25, 2020 9:51 pm I've been on the fence about pledging from the start and have visited the campaign page literally every day.

I've just now decided to pledge as the tucks are beautiful and, despite my rule generally being not to buy decks with standard courts, these courts are really nice. When I was deciding which tier to choose, I noticed that someone had cancelled their "The Complete Tempest PREMIUM Tier LITE" pledge and so I took it as a sign and grabbed it quick; I wouldn't normally go for such an expensive tier but that Prism variation looks to be awesome.

Welcome aboard! I dont think you will be disappointed. Black friday will be nice for you.

Unexpected!

"Tomorrow on BLACK FRIDAY:

All backers with pledges containing physical rewards will have The Great Wylenti COIN with the TGW monogram on one side and a profile relief image of Wylenti himself added to their pledge FOR FREE. Render to be revealed tomorrow!
All backers with pledges containing physical rewards will have a replica of The Great Wylenti's letter to Eliza as heard in The Tale of the Tempest trailer added to their pledge FOR FREE. Within that envelope you will also find two additional printed display cards, one Dynastinae sample cardand one Prism samplecard.
Any backers with pledges totaling $100 or more will have The Great Wylenti Edition Deck added to their pledge FOR FREE. The TGW Edition is printed by Lotrek and features a gorgeous letterpressed tuck case with gold ink and aged weathering effect. Within the box are cards with gold hot foil stamped backs. Photos to be revealed tomorrow!
All backers with at least a single deck pledge, will be able to add on to their pledge The Great Wylenti Edition Deck for only $9. A never-before-seen opportunityto own a luxury deck from Lotrek for far less than the cost to print it! "

Awesome! Thank you TGW and Lotrék!

Strag wrote: ↑Thu Nov 26, 2020 3:45 pm All backers with at least a single deck pledge, will be able to add on to their pledge The Great Wylenti Edition Deck for only $9. A never-before-seen opportunityto own a luxury deck from Lotrek for far less than the cost to print it! "

Amazing! Really grateful and thankful TGW and Lotrek. Happy Thanksgiving and looking forward for this!

Strag wrote: ↑Thu Nov 26, 2020 3:45 pmWithin that envelope you will also find two additional printed display cards, one Dynastinae sample card and one Prism sample card.

OMG OMG OMG

Happy Thanksgiving all! We’ve been planning this for a while—was frustrating to not be able to say more especially with some folks questioning the value. Regardless we are pleased to offer our backers more value. And a lucky number 7 in decks. Wow that’s a lot. But I guess it was worth it.