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Im in Athens right now. Maybe I can man the production while Lotrek is on vacation

brownsl wrote: ↑Sun Aug 04, 2024 5:11 pm He should put a Year 5 on hold until he gets caught up.

Thats a pretty good advice ngl , first he finishes all due promised decks then restarts again . This will also make people have more faith in him . Im hoping 2nd Yr is ready and no tragedy news pops up regarding those . Kevork did you get to see any production or hear any updates regarding Y2 rewards when you met with Lotrek?

I just totaled up the amount I have spent on my Oath Patron and it is $4,903.88. Gulp.

brownsl wrote: ↑Mon Aug 05, 2024 8:14 am I just totaled up the amount I have spent on my Oath Patron and it is $4,903.88. Gulp.

Damn! What tier is that and how long have you been a Patreon?

Been in since Day 1. I was Manic, then Asylum, now back down to Manic.

brownsl wrote: ↑Mon Aug 05, 2024 8:14 am I just totaled up the amount I have spent on my Oath Patron and it is $4,903.88. Gulp.

Now go through and add-up the purchased decks.
That is alot of funding for yr1&2 decks to not be finished (in our hands) by now.

I do hope Lotrék catches up soon or sadly; many of us can see his support diminish quickly.

Cheers,
KW

Pressing pause before a Year 5 is a really good idea for him. I would like to keep my support as I love his work, but I told myself I have to stop if Year 1 isn't out before Year 5 begins. I think I used Charlie Brown, Lucy and the football analogy previously. He keeps snatching the football away. I appreciate the gift decks, but I just cant rationalize continuing the Patreon until the gap of promised decks closes. I recognize he plans for Sept and hopefully that is true. But honestly, delays keep happening either by processing snafus, oversights, or choice. It really has become "I will believe it when stuff arrives at my home".

A comment above about not really having excitement for Year 1 resonated with me. I kind of dont care anymore, aside from wanting what is committed to. There are so many version of what was supposed to be unique and special. At the moment, I feel the Patreon is not really fun or exciting. The increased communication helps but it's hard to get excited by an announcement like the Codex Kickstarter. It is not out of the realm of possibility it will not ship for literally years. Why would I sign up for yet another pre-order when he cant get Patreon Y1-3 and Mystery III out the door. Royal Silk was what, 18 months late or something? I guess I need to vent a little too.

I truly am hopeful some stuff ships in Sept. If Years 1&2 go out, I will feel better about 3 coming shortly and therefore staying on. If his plan for the next few months is at all reasonably accurate, it would do him well to pause to catch up and begin Year 5 in Jan or something.

I sure hope he doesn't hold up shipment because of the special box, that would really annoy me.

Pausing Year 5 as in not collecting Patreon money - how would he pay for his holidays

Hi,

What does the term "patron" actually mean when you give a fixed amount of money each month to card game creators?

Dictionary definition of "patron" term: A person who financially helps, out of love of the arts, an artist, a filmmaker, an academic, a research organization, etc.

As you can see, there is no mention of the obligation the artist might have to produce works to give to the patrons!

I know that patrons here on the site (unitedcardists) have a tacit agreement that creators will give them copies of their creations and even unique copies... But we must not forget that creators have no real obligation to always deliver their new creations "on time"...

They do not like to be pressured so as not to kill their creativity... so here a lot of patience is required for patrons...

Independent creators are rarely seasoned administrators... they also need time to understand the importance of communication follow-up and respecting deadlines.

Talent and art have a price that is not only reflected in the amount payable to obtain these magnificent works, but it is also reflected in the time to design it... But 5 years is a lot...

Best regards!

NIAVLYSYUG wrote: ↑Tue Aug 06, 2024 10:46 am Hi,

What does the term "patron" actually mean when you give a fixed amount of money each month to card game creators?

Dictionary definition of "patron" term: A person who financially helps, out of love of the arts, an artist, a filmmaker, an academic, a research organization, etc.

As you can see, there is no mention of the obligation the artist might have to produce works to give to the patrons!

I know that patrons here on the site (unitedcardists) have a tacit agreement that creators will give them copies of their creations and even unique copies... But we must not forget that creators have no real obligation to always deliver their new creations "on time"...

They do not like to be pressured so as not to kill their creativity... so here a lot of patience is required for patrons...

Independent creators are rarely seasoned administrators... they also need time to understand the importance of communication follow-up and respecting deadlines.

Talent and art have a price that is not only reflected in the amount payable to obtain these magnificent works, but it is also reflected in the time to design it... But 5 years is a lot...

Best regards!

In this case, a 'Patron' is a subscriber on the business platform "Patreon". It is not the dictionary definition of a "patron". With respect to Oath's membership page a "Golden Patron" receives the following as stated on the page:

"After a 12-month Patronage in addition to the Silver Patron's tier rewards you will get 2 copies of "Patrons" Playing Cards: A deck designed and printed exclusively for Golden Patrons. A super rare gem for your collection which will be developed and finalized during the year."

While it does not say precisely when these items will be delivered, in my experience with other creators, it is generally shortly after the end of the subscription cycle. I would not expect that it is generally assumed that delivery will come 4 years later, as you note above. If the desire of the creator is to have extended time for their work, prior to delivery of the stated 'reward', then in my opinion, it should say so.

"Items to be delivered in 3-5 years".

You are right... My English text was a translation from my mother tongue which is French... so sometimes the meaning might not be appropriate...

Yah, it's a agreed on business transaction on patreon for that matter. I get that some may certainly see it the way of a patranoge to an artist but I'm for my part not that fortunate enough to give freebies - even though I have quite some money to spend.

NIAVLYSYUG wrote: ↑Tue Aug 06, 2024 10:46 am Hi,

What does the term "patron" actually mean when you give a fixed amount of money each month to card game creators?

Dictionary definition of "patron" term: A person who financially helps, out of love of the arts, an artist, a filmmaker, an academic, a research organization, etc.

As you can see, there is no mention of the obligation the artist might have to produce works to give to the patrons!

I know that patrons here on the site (unitedcardists) have a tacit agreement that creators will give them copies of their creations and even unique copies... But we must not forget that creators have no real obligation to always deliver their new creations "on time"...

They do not like to be pressured so as not to kill their creativity... so here a lot of patience is required for patrons...

Independent creators are rarely seasoned administrators... they also need time to understand the importance of communication follow-up and respecting deadlines.

Talent and art have a price that is not only reflected in the amount payable to obtain these magnificent works, but it is also reflected in the time to design it... But 5 years is a lot...

Best regards!

That would be the case if it was agreed like that . But Lotrek has Patreon tiers specifically for making and delivering decks . Most Card Creators Patreon works on we give X amounts of Funds in a Year and they deliver some decks based on the funds at the end of the year , some creators do the delivery quarterly etc . Saying they have no real obligation is a very bad argument as its more of a contract which the Patrons have fulfilled by providing funds and the Creator needs to fulfill by delivering their share of rewards. The no obligation argument can lead to disasters as then KS creators can also come to say they also have no obligations to deliver and number of scams would increase . I like how Lotrek takes responsibility for the delays by the Redemption Decks and trying to do the best stuff possible

Spoiler below for redemption (mystery deck)

https://www.facebook.com/share/p/jgFpTA ... tid=K35XfP

Fenrir wrote: ↑Wed Aug 07, 2024 8:42 am Spoiler below for redemption (mystery deck)

https://www.facebook.com/share/p/jgFpTA ... tid=K35XfP

I cancelled my order, for financial reasons and not because of my complaints, and was having an, admittedly minor, case of FOMO. But, after seeing these pictures, I am suffering no longer.

It's impressive and very shiny, but nothing really new design-wise.

Timmargh wrote: ↑Wed Aug 07, 2024 11:07 am

Fenrir wrote: ↑Wed Aug 07, 2024 8:42 am Spoiler below for redemption (mystery deck)

https://www.facebook.com/share/p/jgFpTA ... tid=K35XfP

I cancelled my order, for financial reasons and not because of my complaints, and was having an, admittedly minor, case of FOMO. But, after seeing these pictures, I am suffering no longer.

It's impressive and very shiny, but nothing really new design-wise.

Definitely agree. It's a huge WOW factor that is subdued by a case of déjà vu.

BaconWise wrote: ↑Wed Aug 07, 2024 11:10 am

Timmargh wrote: ↑Wed Aug 07, 2024 11:07 am

Fenrir wrote: ↑Wed Aug 07, 2024 8:42 am Spoiler below for redemption (mystery deck)

https://www.facebook.com/share/p/jgFpTA ... tid=K35XfP

I cancelled my order, for financial reasons and not because of my complaints, and was having an, admittedly minor, case of FOMO. But, after seeing these pictures, I am suffering no longer.

It's impressive and very shiny, but nothing really new design-wise.

Definitely agree. It's a huge WOW factor that is subdued by a case of déjà vu.

I don't have deck like this of his, so happy to be receiveing. And it's a gift deck which is cool. But, I can understand the perspective above from seeing pictures of some of his older work. I expect that the pictures dont really do it justice though.

steampunk52 wrote: ↑Wed Aug 07, 2024 12:23 pm I don't have deck like this of his, so happy to be receiveing. And it's a gift deck which is cool. But, I can understand the perspective above from seeing pictures of some of his older work. I expect that the pictures dont really do it justice though.

Yeah, if this is your first Lotrek deck like this then it'll most likely be amazing to receive. Plus, as you say, it'll look even better in your hands than on a screen.

Timmargh wrote: ↑Wed Aug 07, 2024 11:07 am
I cancelled my order, for financial reasons and not because of my complaints, and was having an, admittedly minor, case of FOMO. But, after seeing these pictures, I am suffering no longer.

It's impressive and very shiny, but nothing really new design-wise.

Tim, I think you've just convinced me to cancel my subscription as well - I had exactly the same reaction when I saw those photos.

I admit it was probably a case of FOMO with me as well but seeing as Yrs2-3 will also use existing court cards (Golden Rule, Sanctissimus & probably Patrons) then the value really isn't there any longer

Ha! I felt kinda bad when I saw the photos and felt disappointed. Don’t get me wrong, I am excited to get these, but I was expecting to see something entirely new. I think I like the original Arabesque better. But since I don’t own any of the collectors editions, I will definitely enjoy these, even though they feel like a bit of a let down in a way.

Despite my disappointment with the recycled courts, these do have that special wow factor that is the reason I love Lotrek’s work. Looking forward to seeing them in person.

I agree with CourtCurator; Arabesque Gold and Silver editions look way better for me. Yes, it is very shiny and beautiful deck but honestly, when I saw that post on Facebook I did not have the "Wow" moment like I had with Crypt, Damask, and Arabesque when saw those for the first time. Even though they are the same, I think courts look better on Arabesque than on Mystery III.

I feel like to Lotrék the design art is uninteresting to a degree and he pursues his happiness on the craftmanship side of things. All the little nerdy stuff about print and presses. I love him for that but maybe since I moved away from the print industry, I guess coincidentially, I moved away from loving his creations as well.
Let's see how I'll flip-flop after year 1 rewards ...

Got my Redemption VIII and Blue Prism today!

The Redemption is just what I want in an Oath deck: non-standard stock, full bleed/borderless back design and foiled up the wazoo.
Would have perhaps liked some foil on the court characters themselves (like the Arabesque Silver Collectors edition) but other than that I’m not complaining.
Actually fanned pretty well for such a heavily foiled deck.
More so than the Blue Prism.

Disappointed the Silk Rule gift deck wasn’t included in this shipment, I need that deck so badly!

Hopefully next time!

The decks have been at a sorting Center 3 days from now. I guess I'll just have to look at the mailbox every day to see if they are there.

Got mine today, blue prism...really not anything special other than the ace, even the backs dont really pop. He really needed to use metallic on the entire deck.

Mystery 3 I really like except that if I was Lotrek I KNOW what would have bugged the crap out of me which is that the courts are just so dark they dont really look that good compared to all the metal on the decks.

Evilgamer wrote: ↑Mon Aug 12, 2024 1:46 pm Got mine today, blue prism...really not anything special other than the ace, even the backs dont really pop. He really needed to use metallic on the entire deck.

Mystery 3 I really like except that if I was Lotrek I KNOW what would have bugged the crap out of me which is that the courts are just so dark they dont really look that good compared to all the metal on the decks.

I wonder if that's what he decided to change for the official version. Kevork, did you get any clue to that when you were there?

Opened m redemption mystery crafts, and it's missing a queen of spades. In the place where it should be is a second ace of spades. Wondering if this is a printing issue where he printed an ace instead of a queen for everyone. Or an assembly issue and my queen of spades is lost or in someone else's deck. Anyone have this issue?

Adamthinks wrote: ↑Mon Aug 12, 2024 2:10 pm

Evilgamer wrote: ↑Mon Aug 12, 2024 1:46 pm [...] the courts are just so dark they dont really look that good compared to all the metal on the decks.

I wonder if that's what he decided to change for the official version. Kevork, did you get any clue to that when you were there?

They will be altered, with that in mind.
The dark courts were done intentionally, but did not give the desired effect Lotrek was looking for. I can't speak to the other modifications since it's not my place. Y'know, mystery and all. The good news is he's already got some of the cards of the final (for now) version printed. Hopefully he's satisfied with them!

bdawg923 wrote: ↑Mon Aug 12, 2024 7:16 pm Opened m redemption mystery crafts, and it's missing a queen of spades. In the place where it should be is a second ace of spades. Wondering if this is a printing issue where he printed an ace instead of a queen for everyone. Or an assembly issue and my queen of spades is lost or in someone else's deck. Anyone have this issue?

I'm surprised that this is still happening when it comes to Lotrek's decks. Highly recommend reaching out to him as he's great when it comes to resolving these types of issues.

Just emailed him. I guess it's just bad luck on my end then. At least it's not a bigger issue that affects everyone!

bdawg923 wrote: ↑Mon Aug 12, 2024 7:22 pm Just emailed him. I guess it's just bad luck on my end then. At least it's not a bigger issue that affects everyone!

Why do you think it is not a bigger issue?