Can I ask you about the quality of the playing cards (stock, finish, cut etc.)?
I have been a collector for decades, I buy playing cards for their beauty but when using them I give priority to their quality (Cartamundi B9 slimline are my favorites and I love USPCC) and the choice of WJPC leaves me with some doubts in the absence of more precise information.
I agree with Jazz
I am not a cardist and I am not really into foiling or even gilding very much, all I know is that USPCC always feel good in your hands
KoD - my initials, no wonder I grew up a lover of playing cards Avatar - Honeybee (No.15+17) Tuck pic by Randy Butterfield for PM
I'm perfectly clear that I care much more about what's on the card than the card itself or the box it came in. (though Im not really a fan of thin stock, I like some resistance to bending forces)
I grabbed the first 4 decks I found in my boxes that fit the comparison
Apocalisse from TWI (CartamundI)
marquis bicycle (uspcc)
Forged by Wondercraft (hi Chris) (WJPC)
one of the new TWI dualism decks (Kingstar)
the cards themselves all feel fine, I really feel sometimes that "handling" is an excuse not to get a deck someone doesn't really want.
Do the cartamudi and USPCC decks feel "slicker" sure, but listening to "handling is better" sometimes you would think the other decks stick together like a book left out in the rain. If anything I feel like searching the deck for a card is easier with the Chinese decks. (but Im not about to start shuffling gilded decks like most of these).
We all (ok most of us) loved Cartamundi but we cant get those anymore for new decks.
Evilgamer wrote: ↑Thu Feb 27, 2025 5:28 pm
I'm perfectly clear that I care much more about what's on the card than the card itself or the box it came in. (though Im not really a fan of thin stock, I like some resistance to bending forces)
I grabbed the first 4 decks I found in my boxes that fit the comparison
Apocalisse from TWI (CartamundI)
marquis bicycle (uspcc)
Forged by Wondercraft (hi Chris) (WJPC)
one of the new TWI dualism decks (Kingstar)
the cards themselves all feel fine, I really feel like "handling" is an excuse not to get a deck someone doesnt really want.
Do the cartamudi and USPCC decks feel "slicker" sure, but listening to "handling is better" sometimes you would think the other decks stick together like a book left out in the rain. If anything I feel like searching the deck for a card is easier with the Chinese decks. (but Im not about to start shuffling gilded decks like most of these).
We all (ok most of us) loved Cartamundi but we cant get those anymore for new decks.
Good theory about handling being an excuse or whatever you are trying to say... from a guy who does care how well cards handle to a guy that says he doesn't, you do you and I'll keep caring about how well the decks handle. It's understandable to lose some handling when foils and gilding are involved but take Heartless Abyss(Carta)vs Heartless Nether(Legends), it's night and day for me. Is it the gilding that makes Nether sticky? probably has something to do with it but overall the Abyss is much more pleasant to use, disregarding how they look. Decks can look really good or be a theme in your wheelhouse like Aquarius decks, but..........
Honeybee wrote: ↑Thu Feb 27, 2025 4:55 pm
I agree with Jazz
I am not a cardist and I am not really into foiling or even gilding very much, all I know is that USPCC always feel good in your hands
Any idea what printer and stock/finish Joker and Thief are using? Those feel really good imo. I think it's a prc printer. If it's wjpc then they are capable of creating cards that handle really well and stock/finish is the decider. I like the design of Charmie decks from wjpc but they are thick and handle poorly.
Good theory about handling being an excuse or whatever you are trying to say... from a guy who does care how well cards handle to a guy that says he doesn't, you do you and I'll keep caring about how well the decks handle. It's understandable to lose some handling when foils and gilding are involved but take Heartless Abyss(Carta)vs Heartless Nether(Legends), it's night and day for me. Is it the gilding that makes Nether sticky? probably has something to do with it but overall the Abyss is much more pleasant to use, disregarding how they look. Decks can look really good or be a theme in your wheelhouse like Aquarius decks, but..........
Id be curious how you felt about Elysium the gilded cartamundi deck, it definitely seems less "smooth" to me than abyss (and a bit more rigid which makes sense)
I don't have Nether opened but I do have Ghenna the red LPCC gilded version open I would say that its the gilding.
JazzBaloo wrote: ↑Thu Feb 27, 2025 8:34 pm
Any idea what printer and stock/finish Joker and Thief are using? Those feel really good imo. I think it's a prc printer. If it's wjpc then they are capable of creating cards that handle really well and stock/finish is the decider. I like the design of Charmie decks from wjpc but they are thick and handle poorly.
Their last KS deck false idols was WJPC, I ended up not backing that one. The campaign page says "We use a variety of manufacturers. Each handling unique aspects of our projects."
I didn't back the idols either and had no clue it was wjpc. I was farting around with one of their Reserve Seconds decks the other day and was impressed. I'll check to see if it is also wjpc. I think they can make cards that handle well but I will always be a thin crush uspcc guy for card handling. Your statement about wjpc being the best quality, needed more context for me maybe. I see how they produce great looking decks and of course that is what attracts many collectors. Carta is indeed out for new custom cards. Foil and gilding make a difference. I haven't opened my Elysium and can't say this or that about it but it does sound logical that it would be stickier, resulting in a worse feel imo. Wjpc is here to stay for now and so champion them for what they offer you. Good stuff.
Evilgamer wrote: ↑Thu Feb 27, 2025 10:15 pm
Short answer is yes, but I suspect most backers that info just goes over their head
But what I mean is it should always be indicated on projects which stock-varnish they use on a project. That way we'll know if the best specs are used or a subpar one.
For example on Goldsmith, the updated website description says
The cards are printed by WJPC, on their premium stock with linen finish
Good discussion on WJPC. Their cards handle well and the quality is top of the line. There are MANY creators using them and have been quietly for probably 7+ years.
The Pied Piper cards will be 300 gsm with foil+embossing with their butter finish. Some creators have rebranded this finish to other things, but it's all the same butter finish. It will be the same stock and finish as Forged and Jazz Riff which we delivered last year. The 310gsm is a bit too thick for my liking. The 300gsm that we are using is most comparable to Cartamundi thickness and handling everyone liked. In fact, I'm using the same Cartamundi tuck die-lines that Boscheiro and Newton have been using for years with Jocu and others. Hope that helps a little with the question.
crhage wrote: ↑Fri Feb 28, 2025 6:50 am
Good discussion on WJPC. Their cards handle well and the quality is top of the line. There are MANY creators using them and have been quietly for probably 7+ years.
The Pied Piper cards will be 300 gsm with foil+embossing with their butter finish. Some creators have rebranded this finish to other things, but it's all the same butter finish. It will be the same stock and finish as Forged and Jazz Riff which we delivered last year. The 310gsm is a bit too thick for my liking. The 300gsm that we are using is most comparable to Cartamundi thickness and handling everyone liked. In fact, I'm using the same Cartamundi tuck die-lines that Boscheiro and Newton have been using for years with Jocu and others. Hope that helps a little with the question.
Looks like the Heirloom Legacy will be the stained glass glued into the tuck of the Heirloom edition. I'm sure we'll see better pictures as these were screenshots from a video, but it looks beautiful. There seems to be a metal card as well.
EDIT: The tuck will be diecut and the metal card inserted inside. Cards will be gilded.
kevork wrote: ↑Sun Mar 02, 2025 11:48 am
Looks like the Heirloom Legacy will be the stained glass glued into the tuck of the Heirloom edition. I'm sure we'll see better pictures as these were screenshots from a video, but it looks beautiful. There seems to be a metal card as well.
I could be mistaken but I believe the metal card is inserted into the tuckbox to give that effect, rather thena metal badge glued to tuck. Identical to the patron black requiem from Lorenzo.
balrog326 wrote: ↑Sun Mar 02, 2025 1:05 pm
I could be mistaken but I believe the metal card is inserted into the tuckbox to give that effect, rather thena metal badge glued to tuck. Identical to the patron black requiem from Lorenzo.
balrog326 wrote: ↑Sun Mar 02, 2025 1:05 pm
I could be mistaken but I believe the metal card is inserted into the tuckbox to give that effect, rather thena metal badge glued to tuck. Identical to the patron black requiem from Lorenzo.
Perhaps you're right! I didn't even consider that possibility Makes the most sense with what we've been shown so far.
He has already said in a previous update that it will be 50$ i don't see that price as something to be happily shocked about but if other people think the metal attachment is worth 25$ then that is ok. It sure does look really good though.
hsbc wrote: ↑Sun Mar 02, 2025 1:30 pm
I will be happily shocked if it's only $50 -- my guess is $80
It's in a quote from an earlier post of yours
hsbc wrote: ↑Sun Feb 23, 2025 8:31 pm
From the campaign:
The Heirloom Edition - The Market Church of St. Nicolai
You can expect the Heirloom Legacy to be $50 each if you want to budget for that or switch to a tier that already includes it.
When a tuck is cut like that, it's much flimsier (thinking of Black Requiem LTD). I'd be curious if that stained glass metal card will be offered as a standalone item as well, similar to how Lorenzo did with his. https://www.stockholm17.com/collections ... tal-card-1
hsbc wrote: ↑Sun Mar 02, 2025 1:30 pm
I will be happily shocked if it's only $50 -- my guess is $80
It's in a quote from an earlier post of yours
hsbc wrote: ↑Sun Feb 23, 2025 8:31 pm
From the campaign:
The Heirloom Edition - The Market Church of St. Nicolai
You can expect the Heirloom Legacy to be $50 each if you want to budget for that or switch to a tier that already includes it.
When a tuck is cut like that, it's much flimsier (thinking of Black Requiem LTD). I'd be curious if that stained glass metal card will be offered as a standalone item as well, similar to how Lorenzo did with his. https://www.stockholm17.com/collections ... tal-card-1
I'm now debating what my final pledge will be.
I am also worried about the tuck ripping around the giant cutout for the heavy insert. I wonder if there is/was foresight to reinforce the cardboard as a solution.
on someone's comment instead of quoting the whole thing to respond saying "thanks" 
@playingcardophile
Makes the most sense with what we've been shown so far.
