Escape Velocity Playing Cards (KS)

[Adamthinks]

Just anecdotally, SoCal is far and away my most-trusted card seller -- and I love love LOVE the weekly deals

Oh man, it's not about SoCal; it was about the system to start with. Read my first comment about this sale.

Well, you are definitely coming off as aggressive and confrontational towards SoCal.

[Honeybee]

I got a little lost here. Are you saying that SoCal got these from Murphy's? They have 146 of them!

It was my stupid newb question that brought SoCal into this, Montenzi was only complaining about Murphy's.
Of course SoCal don't have 146 of them (what was I thinking - NOT) and they don't actually say they have them - just that they are available
Stay cool everybody

[Harvonsgard]

... but extremely bad for this market, as it removes one important thing in this puzzle - trust.

Quite the opposite. It strenghtens my trust in the free market. It shows that asking prices are just that - asking - and nothing more.
MAP on the other hand is ironically a practice of mistrust - mistrust in your own product.

[montenzi]

Quite the opposite. It strenghtens my trust in the free market. It shows that asking prices are just that - asking - and nothing more.
MAP on the other hand is ironically a practice of mistrust - mistrust in your own product.

You are a genius! Who do you think sets these MAP prices? Free market, you say? MAP and wholesale prices are set by Murphy's, and we never requested them to use MAP. We would be happier if we didn't have MAP at all. MAP is used to "regulate" the market (you pay more as the result), but not to protect producers. Read what I was saying in the first post before commenting on anything! All this discussion came out of nowhere. Drama queens detected?

In general, everything is much more interesting than it seems, and you can already see or guess it for yourselves. And it's good that you don't see the complete picture.

[hsbc]

MAP and wholesale prices are set by Murphy's, and we never requested them to use MAP.

Ohhhh, you should have said this from the start! Is it a required condition of selling through Murphy's?

[GandalfPC]

MAP may not protect producers, and may cost the consumer, but it is there most obviously to protect the store that sits in the middle and allow people to be distributors such as socal and penguin - they are part of the food chain after all - if they weren’t then Murphys would be Amazon and not a wholesaler.

The wholesale price does not include the cost of selling to individual consumers and there is no reason why stores would do it for them if they couldn’t safely list their products for a profit rather than having a race to the bottom.

It is just the advertised price that’s limited after all.

[montenzi]

@GandalfPC - exactly! 100%

I believe that if you establish rules, you should follow them. Or just let the market decide. The situation in which some resellers can break rules while others are not allowed to is nonsense and erodes trust in the system. One of the issues with MAP is that it may significantly slow down sales, even though there is still good profit margin for everyone involved. But for obvious reasons, MAP is to protect resellers.

Ohhhh, you should have said this from the start! Is it a required condition of selling through Murphy's?

I don't know. Most of the decks are being sold with MAP.

[socalplayingcards]

Ohhhh, you should have said this from the start! Is it a required condition of selling through Murphy's?

I don't think MAP is required. Of all the playing cards in MM's inventory, 865 are MAP, 852 are not.

[Honeybee]

Definition time

In a retail context, MAP stands for ‘Minimum Advertised Price”. This is the lowest price, decided by the manufacturer of a product, which they will allow that product to be advertised for sale for. It is important to note the distinction that it is not the minimum price that the reseller (retailer) may sell the product for, only the lowest price it may be advertised for.

A manufacturer may choose to impose a MAP policy on reseller for a variety of reasons, such as to avoid the brand or product’s value being eroded. If a brand has spent considerable marketing funds promoting their brand and products as luxury and high-end, for example, this would be damaged by a reseller slashing prices. It could prompt customers to question the regular pricing of that manufacturer’s products or create an expectation that products will be available at that low price again. If one reseller advertises a product at a lower price than other stockists, it can also result in that stockist gaining market share over their competitors, and cause issues in the longer term for the manufacturer.

A Minimum Advertised Price may be imposed by the manufacturer if they are entering an agreement with the reseller to contribute advertising funds to drive sales of their product through that reseller. A MAP policy is typically written as a contract and signed by both the manufacturer and reseller. The MAP should not be confused with other pricing terms, such as the Recommended Retail Price (also known as Manufacturer’s Suggested Retail Price).

A MAP policy can be hard to enforce, particularly with online resellers who may use a variety of tactics such as bundling products together so that the cost of an individual item is not shown

https://ledworld.com.au/blog/what-does- ... in-retail/

[STLBluesNut]

thanks, i was about to look that up.

[Harvonsgard]

Read what I was saying in the first post before commenting on anything! All this discussion came out of nowhere. Drama queens detected?

I comment on what I wanna comment. And not every conversation is a discussion. This is a forum and not every quote is a direct conversation to the OP of the quote. Things can be read with a different perspective. There is no drama at all.
Cool to see that we agree on MAP being bullshit. And I certainly agree on different rules for different folks is a bullshit take as well.

[montenzi]

I asked Murphy's, and they confirmed that SoCal is allowed to sell MM decks below MAP during special sales. I did not request the removal of this deck from the sale. It seems that some members of the community like discounts and sales, ok. It does not matter anymore. However, I'll try to keep my KS decks out of other sales channels in the future. The Legendarium is already exclusive to KS/Montenzi. Five more to come. I still believe that SoCal stock numbers are highly misleading. I have nothing more to add.

[GandalfPC]

I’ll worry about it the day I order from SoCal and they say they are out of stock - but as that has never happened, and certainly there is no hint of the tactic of listing what one does not have to draw in unwitting customers - its just a non-issue to me at the moment.

[montenzi]

I’ll worry about it the day I order from SoCal and they say they are out of stock - but as that has never happened, and certainly there is no hint of the tactic of listing what one does not have to draw in unwitting customers - its just a non-issue to me at the moment.

It's still very misleading! If you want to indicate that these decks are available on order, mention this on the page. You ordered, let's say, 10-15 decks using MM discounts where they sold decks, below production prices, and then a visitor opens your page and sees 146 decks available at this price. Okay. I am not against this practice for regular decks; it's not my business. But for sale items, it is very misleading! You cannot order 146 decks at this price with MM. Or can you?

And, I believe you’ve since been paid for the decks by Murphy’s so I’m a bit confused with the concern of what I pay MM for decks.

I was wrong, sorry; inventory numbers for decks on sale were not as misleading as I previously thought. But this revelation is quite shocking. "Weekly deal" decks are being sold retail at significantly discounted wholesale prices using the same dropshipping model, without any upfront costs and within the available stock. Really?

Question to Henry: Can you confirm that you didn't even consider purchasing these decks before offering discounts?
Question for other resellers: Are you okay with this practice?

As I own an online shop in NZ where I sell MM decks, I am also a reseller. From this perspective, I'll keep saying that it is extremely bad for the market, without making any personal attacks on SoCal. As I mentioned earlier, I often purchase high-quality decks at prices well below the standard wholesale price during these sales. However, I sell them at the RRP or MAP.

I had a good conversation with Murphy's and offered a solution. If (or when) I offer my decks to MM next time, no discounts will be applied to such decks.

[Harvonsgard]

Lel. Just produce decks worth not being discounted.

[hsbc]

Question to Henry: Can you confirm that you didn't even consider purchasing these decks before offering discounts?
Question for other resellers: Are you okay with this practice?

I really don't understand why this practice is apparently so upsetting to you -- does the average buyer care at all where their order is coming from? And I would certainly own fewer decks were it not for discounts like these

[montenzi]

Lel. Just produce decks worth not being discounted.

LOL.

Exactly! Or produce just enough decks for this market. But you will be shocked when you see a list of these decks.

[Harvonsgard]

Since I have connections to resellers plus having worked for quite some years in the print business there is truely nothing that can shock me in that regard, lol.

[montenzi]

I really don't understand why this practice is apparently so upsetting to you -- does the average buyer care at all where their order is coming from? And I would certainly own fewer decks were it not for discounts like these

Yes, it's extremely good for you as a customer (for now)! What motivates other resellers to make those decks also available and accessible, and what drives designers to create, produce, and supply decks to MM? Kickstarter is not for everyone. There is an extensive list of decks in the MM catalog, which, as a reseller, I would never purchase at full wholesale price due to such sales. This will result in even bigger sales and then dumping. It's not about the quality. D&D, Artofplay, KWP, TWI, Jocu, RS, J&T - it doesn't matter.

I am wasting my time on this forum.

[Adamthinks]

I really don't understand what your issue is with decks being sold on sale. These aren't recent decks. These are decks that are languishing in a warehouse and not selling. Of course a sale is going to happen. Otherwise they won't sell.

[montenzi]

I really don't understand what your issue is with decks being sold on sale. These aren't recent decks. These are decks that are languishing in a warehouse and not selling. Of course a sale is going to happen. Otherwise they won't sell.

OMG. It's not about this. Pfff. I'll be back in a couple of months and will definitely read this thread again.

[Adamthinks]

I really don't understand what your issue is with decks being sold on sale. These aren't recent decks. These are decks that are languishing in a warehouse and not selling. Of course a sale is going to happen. Otherwise they won't sell.

OMG. It's not about this. Pfff. I'll be back in a couple of months and will definitely read this thread again.

You're being super dramatic for no reason.

[Honeybee]

I imagine the current market is making some designers/producers question what they do for a living.
Omar is making youtube videos with titles like 'Card Collecting Dead?'

[socalplayingcards]

We've shown and shared on numerous occasions that we do not carry an extensive inventory, which is fine being in relativity close proximity to MM. I totally get it, this is not going to work for a massive number of shops, but it does for us. Having a slight background in Six Sigma & Lean in my day job, we made an strategic decision some time ago to run as lean as possible, which in today's market was probably the best decision we've made as a business. This is also why we clearly list on nearly every collection page that "Most orders will ship in 2-3 business days, if not sooner". Yes, we have an arrangement where we have only 10 approved decks to sell at a discount for a maximum of one week for the Weekly Deals. This helps MM clear some inventory and makes our customers pretty happy to save a few bucks. We do not have the entire Murphy's inventory under MAP, ONLY those 10 decks approved by MM. There are some decks that we have acquired from other means (collection purchases, the Wounded Corner acquisition) where we price those as we see fit since we did not source those from MM. I've shared more than I've cared to.

[Strag]

For someone who makes the bulk of their money from KS, what MM is doing could be harmful to them. If you consistently see a KS creator whose decks sell in the aftermarket for less, well then why back the KS, especially if it's going to fund anyway? As a backer you are taking on added risk, putting funds in months in advance and paying a higher price.

I've found that since I stopped backing on KS I am consistently (although clearly not 100% of the time) able to get the decks I want for less and even save on shipping, especially if I can get them via Pengiun Magic.

[guru]

We've shown and shared on numerous occasions that we do not carry an extensive inventory, which is fine being in relativity close proximity to MM. I totally get it, this is not going to work for a massive number of shops, but it does for us. Having a slight background in Six Sigma & Lean in my day job, we made an strategic decision some time ago to run as lean as possible, which in today's market was probably the best decision we've made as a business. This is also why we clearly list on nearly every collection page that "Most orders will ship in 2-3 business days, if not sooner". Yes, we have an arrangement where we have only 10 approved decks to sell at a discount for a maximum of one week for the Weekly Deals. This helps MM clear some inventory and makes our customers pretty happy to save a few bucks. We do not have the entire Murphy's inventory under MAP, ONLY those 10 decks approved by MM. There are some decks that we have acquired from other means (collection purchases, the Wounded Corner acquisition) where we price those as we see fit since we did not source those from MM. I've shared more than I've cared to.

This

[hsbc]

There are Russian versions "Вторая космическая", 'second space' [says Google Translate, see montenzi's comment below ]

Card Bureau's website says they are limited to 500 each

There's also this other version:

[montenzi]

There are Russian versions "Вторая космическая", 'second space'

"Вторая космическая (скорость)" is about speed, it''s still "Escape Velocity (speed)" of 11km/sec . There is also "Orbital Velocity" (first speed) https://www.britannica.com/science/orbital-velocity

[montenzi]

There's also this other version:

It was the very first (sold out) version of this deck. "Escape Velocity" (Kickstarter) was the second release with updated artwork and new back designs. Both new localized versions are the 3rd edition.

[Honeybee]

I see that Card Bureau still have a handful of each color of the Russian v2's

https://cardbureau.ru/shop/2kosmos-blue ... escription