Comics and Superhero movies

[Eric Lee]

So I finally got to watch Thor : L&T with my family on Sunday via Disney +. It was a disappointment for me. I'm glad I didn't waste my $ watching it in the cinema , but at home . My kids and wife loved it. The humor appealed well to them and that's probably the target audience.

It felt like that there was too much going on and Taika tried, but failed to replicate his Ragnarok formula here. Taika managed to balance the humor and the serious moments very well there.

Jane was done very close to the comics. Her arc was suitable for her. Portman got to do Jane justice here. Bale was excellent as Gorr. Suitably sympathetic and scary at the same time. But as mentioned earlier, way too little screen time. They could have put in 5 extra minutes of him slaughtering the gods and fighting Sif. It would have been epic and showed why he was to be suitably feared. Nothing to say for GotG cameos as I believe they had to explain away why Thor left and give James the space to do his GotG 3 properly without Thor.

The ending was the biggest letdown for me. The final end credit scene spoiled Jane's last scene. Furthermore; I just couldn't wrap my head around why Thor would accept what Gorr asked of him so easily and quickly. At least have Thor say a few more words to show why the show ended the way it did.

Weird to say that I actually wish it was longer than the 2hr run time to allow more scenes for Gorr and Valkyrie and to allow Thor's self-discovery time to develop.

IMDB average score was 6.5/10 for it. That's a suitable score for it IMHO. But as my friend put it so well, MCU P4 is suffering as they don't have an ultimate big bad like Thanos to give the movies a cohesive flow. Right now it looks like their trying too hard to recapture the magic and balance between the MCU and MTVU.

[theCapraAegagrus]

I tried to watch Love and Thunder on Friday, and turned it off after 10 minutes. Making jokes about the fact that he (Waititi) threw away The Warriors Three in Ragnarok was enough for me to say, "enough". I'm glad I didn't waste money on tickets.

[EvilDuncan]

Good lord I was just so disappointed in this movie. I can not get over it.

I've heard people say that this could be a use of the "Unreliable Narrator" trope in the sense that the story might be being told to others by Korg, but that doesn't excuse what they've done to these characters. Almost all of them felt so different from their established personalities.

Gorr was amazing and needed wayyyyy more screen time and some actual god-slaying. Almost every scene is undercut by some stupid joke multiple times a minute. The weight of every scene is just lost. Even Jane's arc was rushed and I felt like I got whiplash every time we switched to her more serious plot. IMHO, 6.5/10 is too high, and I will defend a lot in the MCU.

This movie could have been so great. It had everything going for it, but Taika had to ruin it with his jokes and bad dialogue. That really takes some doing to pull that off.

This is the worst of any MCU entry I've seen. 4/10. Eternals was better. I'm still upset about this.

But as my friend put it so well, MCU P4 is suffering as they don't have an ultimate big bad like Thanos to give the movies a cohesive flow. Right now it looks like their trying too hard to recapture the magic and balance between the MCU and MTVU.

I don't get this sentiment. Phase 1 had no big bad (unless maybe you count Loki?) and we didn't even see Thanos until the end of Avengers 1. Even then, it wasn't really clear what it was building towards until further down the line. It's okay to take a more stretched out road to get there. We know who the big bad is. It's Kang. He aims to control the multiverse. He doesn't need to be heavily involved at the beginning.

Journey before Destination, Radiant.

[theCapraAegagrus]

I don't get this sentiment. Phase 1 had no big bad (unless maybe you count Loki?) and we didn't even see Thanos until the end of Avengers 1. Even then, it wasn't really clear what it was building towards until further down the line. It's okay to take a more stretched out road to get there. We know who the big bad is. It's Kang. He aims to control the multiverse. He doesn't need to be heavily involved at the beginning.

Journey before Destination, Radiant.

Yup. Just because there isn't a "big bad" doesn't mean that there aren't compelling stories to tell, or that 'solo' stories can't be well-written.

Kang will be around in Quantumania to start off Phase 5. It's kinda funny how Loki is the cause of everything, so far. The Avengers forming, Thanos coming to Earth, Sylvie killing HWR for no good reason...

[BaconWise]

Journey before Destination, Radiant.

Do I spy a fellow Sanderson fan?

[theCapraAegagrus]

While I'm at home, I keep forgetting this, but: Morbius is on Netflix. So, if you subscribe to the service, you can watch it for free instead of paying for unknown quality. I say, "unknown" because despite the memes and stuff, people have been telling me that it's not that bad.

[Sir Toddalot]

Journey before Destination, Radiant.

Do I spy a fellow Sanderson fan?

I was thinking the same thing!

[MagikFingerz]

While I'm at home, I keep forgetting this, but: Morbius is on Netflix. So, if you subscribe to the service, you can watch it for free instead of paying for unknown quality. I say, "unknown" because despite the memes and stuff, people have been telling me that it's not that bad.

At this point, I think it NOT being "that bad" would be somewhat of a disappointment. A remarkably bad movie usually makes for better entertainment than a truly mediocre one.

[rousselle]

Watched Morbius the other day. Yeah, nowhere near as bad as the hype made it out to be, and the one scene of a shirtless Matt Smith doing the limbo that has become a meme is, dramatically, a reasonable scene given its context. The ending is rushed, and the post-credits scene kinda contradicts what other movies set up in terms of how the spell from No Way Home worked. But, whatever.

Thing is, as "okay" as it was, it wasn't as bad as some of the other Marvel TV fare of late (or even movies, for that matter), so I'm not sure why this was singled out for all the hate.

[theCapraAegagrus]

I had time to watch Morbius last night, but didn't... I just don't care about CBMs that much anymore. A great trailer (like Black Adam's latest) will be required for me to care going forward, just like every other genre.

I did start Game of Thrones Season 2, though. This is about 2 years after I finished Season 1. The first episode of this season was good.

[EvilDuncan]

I am super excited for Black Adam. The Justice Society looks awesome! Looking forward in particular to Dr. Fate.

I did start Game of Thrones Season 2, though. This is about 2 years after I finished Season 1. The first episode of this season was good.

The first 4-5 seasons of GoT were so good. Shame what happened after that. I've not yet watched any of House of the Dragon, but I hear it's excellent as well (and based on a completed story).

Other things:
I know She-Hulk is not everyone's cup o' tea, but I think it's pretty good for what it is. The character She-Hulk dips into the uncanny valley at times, but I think that's hard to avoid with a character like this.

Andor is the best Star Wars show we've had in a while (which isn't saying much I guess). It's a bit slower paced, but I have no complaints. It's an interesting look at middle-management/corporate levels of the Empire mixed with street-level characters. Highly recommend. I think they only have 2 seasons of this planned, so there should be a relatively tight story.

[theCapraAegagrus]

Hugh Jackman is going to be in Deadpool 3, reprising his role as Wolverine.

I think that this is an awful decision, as Logan was the perfect sendoff for that rendition of the character. It reeks of desperation to keep fans happy, by using a cameo to win us over rather than focusing on hiring good writers.

[EvilDuncan]

I don't disagree, but technically he dies several years in the future relative to the current MCU, so there is a fair bit of time to work with. That's obviously assuming a lot in terms of canonicity.

I dunno, still excited for it.

[MagikFingerz]

I don't disagree, but technically he dies several years in the future relative to the current MCU, so there is a fair bit of time to work with. That's obviously assuming a lot in terms of canonicity.

I dunno, still excited for it.

Same. And the teasers are great:

[Eric Lee]

Ryan and Hugh will make sure it's done properly. Plus it's a great way to make up for the disgrace of a movie that was X-men Origins: Wolvie and that abominable pseudo-Deadpool. Considering Ryan showed what he thought about that movie in the DP2 end credits, here's hoping they'll make amends for it.

[Adamthinks]

I don't disagree, but technically he dies several years in the future relative to the current MCU, so there is a fair bit of time to work with. That's obviously assuming a lot in terms of canonicity.

I dunno, still excited for it.

Same. And the teasers are great:

Yeah, I'm pretty excited for it. It's a great idea and has the potential to be incredibly fun and likely will be. I don't really see a negative here.

[theCapraAegagrus]

I don't really see a negative here.

No narrative consequences has basically been the largest criticism of comic book media. No one ever dies. It's boring, and this plays a part of that now.

[EvilDuncan]

Logan takes place in 2029 I believe, so they have several years of him still alive to work with. I do agree with your statement in general though.

[theCapraAegagrus]

That doesn't matter to me. Once I've seen a character die in a story that they could call their own (not visions of the future), they should stay dead.

[rousselle]

That doesn't matter to me. Once I've seen a character die in a story that they could call their own (not visions of the future), they should stay dead.

So, flashbacks are a no-no for you?

I have mixed thoughts on these. If handled well, they can enhance both the story they are included in as well as the stories previously known, but if it's just a drive-by cameo for us to wave at a beloved character who has since passed on, it doesn't feel quite right.

Game of Thrones only included a couple flashbacks, but that was when the writing was still good. In one case, it was a straight-up flashback (presenting Circe as a child being told a prophecy by a witch we never saw before or since.) In others, there was a time-travel aspect involving the Three-eyed Raven (who was mostly an observer, but also a participant to a lesser extent). In those cases, they used different actors to play younger versions of the characters we knew, so seeing a younger version of Ned Stark, for example, worked really well without feeling like a cheat. It enriched our understanding of Ned Stark, as well as providing us with vital information about another character. Whereas, the younger version of Hodor was... devastatingly well done. It not only enhanced the story, it ENHANCED THE STORY. Of course, Hodor wasn't dead in the present story when the flashback was shown, but it's still a relevant example if you know the scenes I'm talking about.

As such, I do think revisiting characters whose death has been portrayed can work.

Deadpool is irreverent enough that I expect they'll make it work and they won't undo all the awesomeness of Logan.

Damn, Logan was good, wasn't it?

Edit: this is one of the reasons the Black Widow movie didn't work for me. It didn't really enhance her story much, and it didn't really do much to enhance the "present" timeline of the Avengers' story, either. This movie *could* have done both and really stuck the landing, but it would have been a difficult trick to pull off and they just didn't manage it. It *might* have worked okay as a stand alone if it had been released within the timeframe that the story took place (ie, right after Civil War), but as a flashback, it didn't have the punch it needed in order to work.

[theCapraAegagrus]

So, flashbacks are a no-no for you?

I have mixed thoughts on these. If handled well, they can enhance both the story they are included in as well as the stories previously known, but if it's just a drive-by cameo for us to wave at a beloved character who has since passed on, it doesn't feel quite right.

Game of Thrones only included a couple flashbacks, but that was when the writing was still good. In one case, it was a straight-up flashback (presenting Circe as a child being told a prophecy by a witch we never saw before or since.) In others, there was a time-travel aspect involving the Three-eyed Raven (who was mostly an observer, but also a participant to a lesser extent). In those cases, they used different actors to play younger versions of the characters we knew, so seeing a younger version of Ned Stark, for example, worked really well without feeling like a cheat. It enriched our understanding of Ned Stark, as well as providing us with vital information about another character. Whereas, the younger version of Hodor was... devastatingly well done. It not only enhanced the story, it ENHANCED THE STORY. Of course, Hodor wasn't dead in the present story when the flashback was shown, but it's still a relevant example if you know the scenes I'm talking about.

As such, I do think revisiting characters whose death has been portrayed can work.

Deadpool is irreverent enough that I expect they'll make it work and they won't undo all the awesomeness of Logan.

Damn, Logan was good, wasn't it?

Edit: this is one of the reasons the Black Widow movie didn't work for me. It didn't really enhance her story much, and it didn't really do much to enhance the "present" timeline of the Avengers' story, either. This movie *could* have done both and really stuck the landing, but it would have been a difficult trick to pull off and they just didn't manage it. It *might* have worked okay as a stand alone if it had been released within the timeframe that the story took place (ie, right after Civil War), but as a flashback, it didn't have the punch it needed in order to work.

Flashbacks and visions can be useful tools for storytelling. I simply have no interest in stories that feature dead characters. As in, we've seen the complete story as to how they died. Solo, and Black Widow, are prime examples. Wolverine, Iron Man, etc can all be a part of the MCU. I just don't want Jackman, RDJ, etc being a part of it. Those characters had fulfilling endings. To me, it's like vomiting up the best pizza you've ever eaten.

I skipped the paragraph in which you mention GOT, because I'm currently in Season 6. However, since you mentioned the show, I would be entirely turned-off by Robb Stark coming back to life. F**k, I knew Jon was coming back somehow (because of how often the camera was on his body), and I still begrudged the fact that it was going to happen. That actually may be part of the reason that S6 is such a slog for me right now.

[Adamthinks]

That doesn't matter to me. Once I've seen a character die in a story that they could call their own (not visions of the future), they should stay dead.

I don't understand that perspective. It's just another story. Why does it matter in what order they are released? Why would fun stories need to be boxed in with restrictions like that? If someone were telling a story by the campfire about a character that had already died, would you tell them to shut the hell up?

[theCapraAegagrus]

I don't understand that perspective. It's just another story. Why does it matter in what order they are released? Why would fun stories need to be boxed in with restrictions like that? If someone were telling a story by the campfire about a character that had already died, would you tell them to shut the hell up?

Why would I care about a fictional character if I have witnessed all of the important plots to their story? I don't have parasocial needs, I can move on to other narratives that are compelling.

[Adamthinks]

I don't understand that perspective. It's just another story. Why does it matter in what order they are released? Why would fun stories need to be boxed in with restrictions like that? If someone were telling a story by the campfire about a character that had already died, would you tell them to shut the hell up?

Why would I care about a fictional character if I have witnessed all of the important plots to their story? I don't have parasocial needs, I can move on to other narratives that are compelling.

Because it might be a good and fun story. It's not that serious.

[rousselle]

How far into Season 6 of GoT have you gotten?

[MagikFingerz]

Because it might be a good and fun story. It's not that serious.

Oh, but he's very serious. And whatever you do, don't call him Shirley.

[rousselle]

[theCapraAegagrus]

Because it might be a good and fun story. It's not that serious.

Well, as has been mentioned, that's neither "good" nor "fun" for me.

[theCapraAegagrus]

How far into Season 6 of GoT have you gotten?

I just got through Episode 9 last night. Those latter episodes redeemed the season quite well.

[rousselle]

Yeah, season 6 really builds up pretty well.