Cedars Project Premium Deck Release!

[Aliasfour]

Greetings Everyone

This is a re-launch of our previous campaign and we have listened to your thoughts on the deck and tried our best to implement them in the new artwork. What you'll find the change is the Card Back Design, Jokers, and Court Cards. As many people wanted the same tuck, we decided to keep it as it is. Hopefully, these improvements will help us fund faster and easier.

Key Features:
- Printed by WJPC on Casino Quality Stock (300gsm German Black Core Paper + Butter Finish)
- Custom Tuck Case, Custom Court Cards, and Custom Card Back - Two Way Card Back Design

Features ARRCO style design, with re-coloring and subtle additions and adjustments. The additions made will make you explore the Lebanese style of dressing in Dabke.

We are almost at 35%. We need your help and your support to reach our goal. We have exciting stretch goals hope you check them out. Link Below.

Link: https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/zp ... ref=1d2s6e

[Aliasfour]

Premium Deck Release! You don't wanna miss out!

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/zp ... ref=1d2s6e

Prices: 1 Premium Deck will be 30$ AUD about 22$ USD & 6 Premium Decks will be for the price of 5 decks 150$ AUD about 110$ USD. No extra shipping cost.

[Harvonsgard]

Decks are all premium/artist proof/collector's/signature/uber rare/special/patreon exclusive/only fans editions these days...
Makes Standard the actual special thing.
(Exaggoration)

[Aliasfour]

Decks are all premium/artist proof/collector's/signature/uber rare/special/patreon exclusive/only fans editions these days...
Makes Standard the actual special thing.
(Exaggoration)

You are absolutely right! To answer you, we are saying premium because we are comparing them to our standard decks which is a standard box & a standard deck with nothing special on it and they are limited.
Thank you for your feedback.
All respect.

[STLBluesNut]

well shit! as long as its an artificially limited, limited edition deck, sign me up for 6 on all of my KS accounts. its made with real bits of limited, so you know its good.

[GandalfPC]

Forgive me for being negative, but if a deck project can’t reach a 5k goal in two weeks the idea of value in a premium version might get you funded, but it won’t create actual value - gilding a lily is one thing, lipstick on a pig is another

Would not have felt the need to be so negative if this were presented in a less “you don’t want to miss out” way - FOMO is already too prevalent an illness

On the positive side - free shipping!

[Harvonsgard]

FOMO is already too prevalent an illness.

You - I like you.

[Aliasfour]

Forgive me for being negative, but if a deck project can’t reach a 5k goal in two weeks the idea of value in a premium version might get you funded, but it won’t create actual value - gilding a lily is one thing, lipstick on a pig is another

Would not have felt the need to be so negative if this were presented in a less “you don’t want to miss out” way - FOMO is already too prevalent an illness

On the positive side - free shipping!

Thank you for sharing your opinion with us. We don't force anyone into backing the project and yes it has been a long way, forgive us for making that an option. Just saying some campaigns take literally the final day to fund and a lot of these campaigns become successful later on by creating a fan base. We are creating a community here that loves the artwork that we produce. Maybe you don't understand the sacrifice that is made here to put in these 100 decks and the effort we're trying to put in to make this dream a reality. And for the expression "you don't want to miss out" well yes they are limited and you don't want to miss out on them for 2 reasons, they will increase in price later on because you'd have to pay for shipping and there are 100 decks only. Hopefully, this makes sense. Constructive criticism is appreciated but such expressions "FOMO is already too prevalent an illness" & "gilding a lily is one thing, lipstick on a pig is another" is not, anyways your words describe your mentality. Thanks

[Aliasfour]

well shit! as long as its an artificially limited, limited edition deck, sign me up for 6 on all of my KS accounts. its made with real bits of limited, so you know its good.

Unfortunately, we are limited by the costs of it, otherwise, we want everyone to have a chance to have a premium deck. If we sell out of the 100 decks and see that more people want the deck, we will definitely throw in another batch with the money that will get from the 1st 100. We don't aim for profit especially looking at a gilded deck with embossed tuck and matte finish for 22$ shipped, we are trying to keep our fans satisfied as much as possible.

[GandalfPC]

you don't want to miss out on them for 2 reasons, they will increase in price later on because you'd have to pay for shipping and there are 100 decks only.

I will grant you that the lipstick on a pig comment was overly harsh, but I decided to go with it because it best encapsulated the idea that in order for a limited gilded deck to be likely to increase in value the non gilded version must also be desirable. Neither limited nor gilded will create a future increase in price without a healthy market for the cards themselves.

I felt this important to relay to budding collectors so that they may be more discerning - same for the FOMO comment which I stand behind 100%. Both of these were critiques of the industry in general.

Your reply that these will increase in price later due to shipping and 100 decks only assures me that my comments were both needed and the extra harshness not to be sweated.

And I did say “free shipping!” as a positive note

[Aliasfour]

you don't want to miss out on them for 2 reasons, they will increase in price later on because you'd have to pay for shipping and there are 100 decks only.

I will grant you that the lipstick on a pig comment was overly harsh, but I decided to go with it because it best encapsulated the idea that in order for a limited gilded deck to be likely to increase in value the non gilded version must also be desirable. Neither limited nor gilded will create a future increase in price without a healthy market for the cards themselves.

I felt this important to relay to budding collectors so that they may be more discerning - same for the FOMO comment which I stand behind 100%. Both of these were critiques of the industry in general.

Your reply that these will increase in price later due to shipping and 100 decks only assures me that my comments were both needed and the extra harshness not to be sweated.

And I did say “free shipping!” as a positive note

Seems like you didn't understand our point of view as I explained to the other person. It's not up to you to decide if the deck is desirable or not, hopefully, once the project is funded it counters all of your imagination that for some reason you're jumping on us as if we have something against you. I will repeat, there are still about 2 weeks left and many decks get funded in the last minutes. Keep in mind that we are building a fan base, we're not forcing you into it and you'll not be the one who decides if the deck is desirable or not, once it funds it says that it's desirable. And, for the increase in price, there is no actual huge increase in price that are we looking to make profit out of it, all will be added is the shipping which is something done for obvious reasons if you understand how Kickstarter works and how shipping companies charge.

When it comes to saying it's premium and you don't wanna miss out. Let me explain to you why we called it that way and why we said you don't wanna miss out.
1- We are not comparing ourselves to the market, if we did you'd find the price for the deck go up to 30$ USD which is not in this case, and they charge for shipping most of the time.
2- The deck is premium compared to our standard deck that has no additions on the deck itself or the tuck, so comparing them yes it's premium.
3- The prices that we made are actually based on polls we made before deciding the final price. As we have seen on the market the lowest priced deck with such features goes from 25$ to 40$ and that doesn't even include shipping. So when we say premium we have the right to do it, only if you consider being more expensive and getting ripped off is a premium thing.
4- Why you don't wanna miss out, even if we add in another batch, you won't get the offer which is 6 decks for the price of 5 and you'll also have to pay for shipping which if you're living in the US it won't cost a lot (still extra money) but if you live internationally that's a big chunk you'll have to pay, we are not saying they are limited to Kickstarter only, so any extras or if we have the extra money we will print extras so everyone can get their hands on them.

For your comments, as much as they are harsh, I don't really take them into consideration so don't worry about it. You can speak your opinion freely, you'll be thanked for positive and negative ones and only positive ones are appreciated. And thank you again for the positive note.

Thanks! Full Respect!

[Strag]

Based on the above aggressive tone from the project creator, I want nothing to do with any of your projects. You need to have a thicker skin and listen to the feedback. The creator is not always right and in this case there are many statements that you make that I would vehemently disagree with but you clearly aren't going to listen so won't waste any more of my time.

[GandalfPC]

Perhaps it was the exclamation point in the subject that got me going (the only one in the last dozen pages of posts here), but I did feel compelled to make a few points - and they have been made, so I shall not opine on them.

Not rooting against you getting funded - anyone liking the cards should certainly buy them - but funding at the 5k level will not change my imagination regarding the level of desirability which implies future value.

[Aliasfour]

Based on the above aggressive tone from the project creator, I want nothing to do with any of your projects. You need to have a thicker skin and listen to the feedback. The creator is not always right and in this case there are many statements that you make that I would vehemently disagree with but you clearly aren't going to listen so won't waste any more of my time.

No aggressiveness here. I'm plainly just doing a proper explanation and that's it. I'm open to all kinds of feedback as I'm new to this. Constructive criticism is something I should accept but not negative opinions that make me feel bad about the project. I never said I'm totally right on anything, I'm happy to listen to all your feedback on it, if you think you'll waste your time believe me you won't. I'm here to learn but not to get aggressive statements without any based evidence. And just because my project is funding slowly doesn't make it a bad project for the market and doesn't impact the value of the cards. I don't understand how this is connected because there is no real connection between slow funding and future value.

I understand the point where if the deck is more desirable, its price increases. But I'm not increasing its price because of that, the price will automatically increase for one reason only, which is shipping, not a dime more than that. I have no right to increase the price of the actual deck as it will stay the same even for the standard.

I hope you understand my point of view. Thank you for your time <3

[Sir Toddalot]

I’m not seeing the aggressive tone from the creator. He’s merely explaining his thought process and I thought he did a good job explaining his side. He might be wasting his time, I’ve noticed in the short time I’ve been on this forum that people here seem to have very strong opinions. I feel some of the comments made were more about the general playing card market, and the creator took them as directed specifically at him. I personally don’t feel like there’s anything too special about the cards themselves, but they have a nice, simple theme. That green gilding looks quite nice. The price is also nice, $11+shipping for a single deck and $22 for a upgraded version seems very reasonable. I’ve backed for a pair.

[Harvonsgard]

I’m not seeing the aggressive tone from the creator.

Me neither. He had a breakdown in the past due to not being used and acclimated to the rough pub environment we have here quite often. But since then he learned to take it for what it is and I don't see any uncalled aggressiveness here either. Especially considering that English isn't the creators first language.
The creator is not always right, of course, neither is the customer/collector.
I for my part have no problems at all with strong languge/harsh jokes/banter but I'm sincerely surprised that some people think they are allowed to call something bad or shit or worse and then expect the creator, who is somewhat attached to his creation, to smile and say thank you!? Kinda weird imho.

[GandalfPC]

Indeed. Frankly if that pig with lipstick line didn’t earn me a punch in the chops I think handled himself like quite the gentleman

[Strag]

OK let me highlight some of the parts I consider "aggressive";

t's not up to you to decide if the deck is desirable or not, hopefully, once the project is funded it counters all of your imagination that for some reason you're jumping on us as if we have something against you.

...you'll not be the one who decides if the deck is desirable or not, once it funds it says that it's desirable.

So when we say premium we have the right to do it, only if you consider being more expensive and getting ripped off is a premium thing.

Maybe it's the language gap, but these came across as aggressive to me. And yes, I do judge on these sort of things as in my experience of collecting and backing on Kickstart (I own >2000 unique decks and have backed hundreds of Kickstarters) I have learned to watch out for warning signs and the way a creator engages is one of them for me.

Yes, this community can be harsh and judgemental, but there are also some heavy hitters here that have a lot of experience and it can be worthwhile listening to the feedback, blunt as it sometimes is.

Regarding some to the statments I would take issue with;

You said

Premium Deck Release! You don't wanna miss out!

but then later said

If we sell out of the 100 decks and see that more people want the deck, we will definitely throw in another batch with the money that will get from the 1st 100.

So which is it, are they limited to 100 as you state or is it as many as you can sell? If it's the latter than I certainly don't need to rush.

You said

To answer you, we are saying premium because we are comparing them to our standard decks which is a standard box & a standard deck with nothing special on it and they are limited.

Well sure that's one definition of premium, but then you also say that the "market price" for such a deck is $30. Most deck creators would just it a Special Edition, not premium, as premium often includes a lot of other features such as foil on the tuck inside and out, numbered seals, emboss/deboss, etc. That's not to say that I don't think your pricing isn't right for it, it's just the description of it as "premium" that doesn't resonate for me. I actually think the increase of US$11 from the "standard" to the "premium" is fine for what it is, just doesn't need to be hyped the way it was (in my opinion, not a statement of fact).

That said, I also think that you are settiing yourself up to fail. As you state, you are not charging shipping for these add-ons. Well that could really create a huge shipping bill for you. This seems to be the case for all the deck add-ons, not just the Premium deck, and again could really work against you.

BTW, Kudos for offering an uncut sheet for AU$15, not usually that low a price and you were smart to add additional shipping charges for those, they can be insanely costly to ship.

I actually don't mind the deck design at all, and the theme really resonates with me, but I do find the tuck rather plain and I'm not a huge fan of WJPC as a supplier. The goal is already low at $5K USD - after Kickstarter fees, production, shipping costs, fullfillment house costs etc, I'm doubtful you would have enough funds unless you blew past the guarantee. With a first time creator project that's already a relaunch and my other concerns...well that's my thinking and the tone that I considered aggressive (and I get that others don't) mean that I wouldn't touch the project.

[Dan.Yule.Sun]

I don't post on here that much, more just look once in a blue moon.

I have talked to this creator many times over the past year or so. The issues I have with this campaign is not really the deck (it looks fine to me). it is:

1. really low funding goal (more so for a first timer)
2. i get a very 'I am entitled to have this fund' vibe
3. the thin skin when it comes to feedback/criticism

My first project, I got alot of feedback and some of the bad feedback was harsh....but who cares lol. Some people are going to love a deck and some are gonna hate it. Shit aint for everyone and it is super rare to have product that every single person is gonna love. I back projects based on the design, the goals and how much work/passion the creator has for it. You make prototypes instead of just renders? Awesome, you show me you are willing to put money into a project before you even launch it. Also, if the creator is an asshole...see ya lol.

I don't know everything and I have taken a few hits for hating on the Fontaine creator a time or two on the Instagram so I have learn not to over speak my mind anymore...but this project. IT just screams desperate to fund and the creator is gonna take a huge hit if it does fund and that sucks.

[Aliasfour]

I’m not seeing the aggressive tone from the creator. He’s merely explaining his thought process and I thought he did a good job explaining his side. He might be wasting his time, I’ve noticed in the short time I’ve been on this forum that people here seem to have very strong opinions. I feel some of the comments made were more about the general playing card market, and the creator took them as directed specifically at him. I personally don’t feel like there’s anything too special about the cards themselves, but they have a nice, simple theme. That green gilding looks quite nice. The price is also nice, $11+shipping for a single deck and $22 for a upgraded version seems very reasonable. I’ve backed for a pair.

Thank you for your support, really appreciate it <3

[Aliasfour]

I’m not seeing the aggressive tone from the creator.

Me neither. He had a breakdown in the past due to not being used and acclimated to the rough pub environment we have here quite often. But since then he learned to take it for what it is and I don't see any uncalled aggressiveness here either. Especially considering that English isn't the creators first language.
The creator is not always right, of course, neither is the customer/collector.
I for my part have no problems at all with strong languge/harsh jokes/banter but I'm sincerely surprised that some people think they are allowed to call something bad or shit or worse and then expect the creator, who is somewhat attached to his creation, to smile and say thank you!? Kinda weird imho.

You are absolutely right, I have been aggressive and I learned my lesson here. But I also learned to distinguish between negativity and constructive criticism. Thank you for your honesty! I'd rather thank the person for their negativity and smile much better than blowing up like in the past.

[Aliasfour]

Indeed. Frankly if that pig with lipstick line didn’t earn me a punch in the chops I think handled himself like quite the gentleman

Thanks for understanding <3

[Aliasfour]

OK let me highlight some of the parts I consider "aggressive";

t's not up to you to decide if the deck is desirable or not, hopefully, once the project is funded it counters all of your imagination that for some reason you're jumping on us as if we have something against you.

...you'll not be the one who decides if the deck is desirable or not, once it funds it says that it's desirable.

So when we say premium we have the right to do it, only if you consider being more expensive and getting ripped off is a premium thing.

Maybe it's the language gap, but these came across as aggressive to me. And yes, I do judge on these sort of things as in my experience of collecting and backing on Kickstart (I own >2000 unique decks and have backed hundreds of Kickstarters) I have learned to watch out for warning signs and the way a creator engages is one of them for me.

Yes, this community can be harsh and judgemental, but there are also some heavy hitters here that have a lot of experience and it can be worthwhile listening to the feedback, blunt as it sometimes is.

Regarding some to the statments I would take issue with;

You said

Premium Deck Release! You don't wanna miss out!

but then later said

If we sell out of the 100 decks and see that more people want the deck, we will definitely throw in another batch with the money that will get from the 1st 100.

So which is it, are they limited to 100 as you state or is it as many as you can sell? If it's the latter than I certainly don't need to rush.

You said

To answer you, we are saying premium because we are comparing them to our standard decks which is a standard box & a standard deck with nothing special on it and they are limited.

Well sure that's one definition of premium, but then you also say that the "market price" for such a deck is $30. Most deck creators would just it a Special Edition, not premium, as premium often includes a lot of other features such as foil on the tuck inside and out, numbered seals, emboss/deboss, etc. That's not to say that I don't think your pricing isn't right for it, it's just the description of it as "premium" that doesn't resonate for me. I actually think the increase of US$11 from the "standard" to the "premium" is fine for what it is, just doesn't need to be hyped the way it was (in my opinion, not a statement of fact).

That said, I also think that you are settiing yourself up to fail. As you state, you are not charging shipping for these add-ons. Well that could really create a huge shipping bill for you. This seems to be the case for all the deck add-ons, not just the Premium deck, and again could really work against you.

BTW, Kudos for offering an uncut sheet for AU$15, not usually that low a price and you were smart to add additional shipping charges for those, they can be insanely costly to ship.

I actually don't mind the deck design at all, and the theme really resonates with me, but I do find the tuck rather plain and I'm not a huge fan of WJPC as a supplier. The goal is already low at $5K USD - after Kickstarter fees, production, shipping costs, fullfillment house costs etc, I'm doubtful you would have enough funds unless you blew past the guarantee. With a first time creator project that's already a relaunch and my other concerns...well that's my thinking and the tone that I considered aggressive (and I get that others don't) mean that I wouldn't touch the project.

First let me say, I'm sorry for sounding aggressive in my words. As someone mentioned, English isn't my first language. On my behalf, I was just trying to explain nothing more than that, so I apologize again for any kind of aggressiveness that appeared from me.

You are right about calling it premium, I must have called it special not premium but mistakes are made, and thank you for informing me for next time.

Why are we going to add another batch if the first is sold out? Personally, I want to create decks that everyone can have without having to pay extra because they were limited to 100 or whatever. And why didn't I throw in 200 at first? honestly, it's just money is short. if we are able to sell the first batch and guarantee that we'll have money for the second batch to be paid for that's what will happen.

For setting myself up to fail and the low goal and not charging shipping. I'd be happy to share our expenses with you, we don't aim for profit in the campaign. We can charge extra shipping but that would make the deck overpriced and I'd be scamming the backers. Why is the goal low? WJPC is cheap compared to other companies and I went with them not only for that reason but they have upped their quality so they are now contenders in the market. We carefully calculated everything and this edition of the "premium decks" would put us on the edge of funding and we'd have to pay a bit more from our pocket. Its all about trying hard to fulfill my dream.

Thank you and sorry again for the tone.

[Aliasfour]

I don't post on here that much, more just look once in a blue moon.

I have talked to this creator many times over the past year or so. The issues I have with this campaign is not really the deck (it looks fine to me). it is:

1. really low funding goal (more so for a first timer)
2. i get a very 'I am entitled to have this fund' vibe
3. the thin skin when it comes to feedback/criticism

My first project, I got alot of feedback and some of the bad feedback was harsh....but who cares lol. Some people are going to love a deck and some are gonna hate it. Shit aint for everyone and it is super rare to have product that every single person is gonna love. I back projects based on the design, the goals and how much work/passion the creator has for it. You make prototypes instead of just renders? Awesome, you show me you are willing to put money into a project before you even launch it. Also, if the creator is an asshole...see ya lol.

I don't know everything and I have taken a few hits for hating on the Fontaine creator a time or two on the Instagram so I have learn not to over speak my mind anymore...but this project. IT just screams desperate to fund and the creator is gonna take a huge hit if it does fund and that sucks.

I don't understand why having a low funding goal which is 5K, not 4 or 3 or etc... anyway I'm happy to share the whole figures with you and you can check for yourself, I don't mind.

My position doesn't allow me to put in a lot of money into the project, I work 2 jobs and barely surviving. Not everyone can make prototype and not everyone can pay for advertising and not everyone will love the artwork for sure.

I'm not quite sure about what you mean by "I am entitled to have this fund", if I told you something privately that made you think like that, I think you misunderstood me. Anyway, I already face a lot of challenges that you don't have to face in general for me to be able to do a Kickstarter campaign. So, if working hard is I am entitled to have this fund, then I accept that because I'm pursuing my dream and I'm sharing my passion through creating these decks. Hopefully, this makes a lot more sense now.

Thank you!

[Eric Lee]

I don't understand why having a low funding goal which is 5K, not 4 or 3 or etc... anyway I'm happy to share the whole figures with you and you can check for yourself, I don't mind.

My position doesn't allow me to put in a lot of money into the project, I work 2 jobs and barely surviving. Not everyone can make prototype and not everyone can pay for advertising and not everyone will love the artwork for sure.

I'm not quite sure about what you mean by "I am entitled to have this fund", if I told you something privately that made you think like that, I think you misunderstood me. Anyway, I already face a lot of challenges that you don't have to face in general for me to be able to do a Kickstarter campaign. So, if working hard is I am entitled to have this fund, then I accept that because I'm pursuing my dream and I'm sharing my passion through creating these decks. Hopefully, this makes a lot more sense now.

Thank you!

Thanks for coming back and sticking with this project while incorporating the previous feedback. It's definitely not easy, what with the current pandemic hit economy globally. As it has been said, this forum has quite the vocal members but it gives great feedback from truly passionate card lovers (from most of the spectrum) ; once you know how to filter it. While it may be struggling to fund, your positive engagement here helps. I'm already backing but limited funds means I can only do the bare min. Keep at it.

[Aliasfour]

I don't understand why having a low funding goal which is 5K, not 4 or 3 or etc... anyway I'm happy to share the whole figures with you and you can check for yourself, I don't mind.

My position doesn't allow me to put in a lot of money into the project, I work 2 jobs and barely surviving. Not everyone can make prototype and not everyone can pay for advertising and not everyone will love the artwork for sure.

I'm not quite sure about what you mean by "I am entitled to have this fund", if I told you something privately that made you think like that, I think you misunderstood me. Anyway, I already face a lot of challenges that you don't have to face in general for me to be able to do a Kickstarter campaign. So, if working hard is I am entitled to have this fund, then I accept that because I'm pursuing my dream and I'm sharing my passion through creating these decks. Hopefully, this makes a lot more sense now.

Thank you!

Thanks for coming back and sticking with this project while incorporating the previous feedback. It's definitely not easy, what with the current pandemic hit economy globally. As it has been said, this forum has quite the vocal members but it gives great feedback from truly passionate card lovers (from most of the spectrum) ; once you know how to filter it. While it may be struggling to fund, your positive engagement here helps. I'm already backing but limited funds means I can only do the bare min. Keep at it.

Thank You so much for your support and feedback! The key is not giving up and I will try my best to make this deck a reality. We are at 80% now, with only 9 days to go, we need more support from people to share the project. Without the help of the community, it would be hard to get funds in.

Thanks again for the support from you and everyone who is helping to make this project a reality.

[hsbc]

[Harvonsgard]

How do they feel, in regards to stock/handling?

[hsbc]

How do they feel, in regards to stock/handling?

Pretty good IMO, similar to the handful of other WJPC decks I have (Hoody is the first that comes to mind)

[Aliasfour]

How do they feel, in regards to stock/handling?

Pretty good IMO, similar to the handful of other WJPC decks I have (Hoody is the first that comes to mind)

First, I want to thank you for supporting me on this project and I really appreciate it.
Second, I'm so happy that you received the deck and that you like it.
Finally, I want to thank you for sharing it in the forum.