Best Time to Launch NEW Kickstarter - Hipster Santa

[Brightyquid]

HI!

I recently posted about the '21's' deck that I tried to Kickstart, and although I got 25% funded, I cancelled the campaign with 18 days to go. I cancelled because of the feedback I received and agreed with. I have decided to refine the design, so it still remains true to my original vision; but now is built around the 'Hipster Santa' theme.

The Campaign - 'Hipster Santa' Decks By BrightDesignHouse - 500 Red & 500 Black - Numbered 'x of 500' on the seal and each pack hand-signed. - FREE GLOBAL SHIPPING. (PRINTED BY Expert Playing Cards)

The Tuck - Red/Black 310gsm art card with embossed gold foil design.

The Cards (Reverse) - Process Black OR Pantone 8923c Red + Pantone 871 (Metallic Gold)

The Faces - Custom Hipster Santa 'Ace of spades' Pantone 871 (Metallic Gold), 3 custom Hipster Santa Jokers and standard EPCC faces with Custom pips, Metallic gold and additions (This was a decision made to keep the cards 2-way but still remain inline with the overall design)

Price - £10/$13 per deck (Black Or Red) - £20 for both colour variants - £100 for a split-brick 6 x Red, 6 x Black. (additional rewards)

I have attached a 3D mock up of both decks below and I have both the card-backs and both Tuck variants available to share.

I really just want the thoughts of the community, to get initial reactions, thoughts on release date and advisories/criticisms of the designs...My 10 cents would be; this time of year would be best to feed into the festive period, but the cards would realistically reach the backers by January, hence why the tuck is not 'Christmassy' and hopefully usable year round. Additionally, the tucks are principally based around the 'BrightDesignHouse' brand with nods to the 'Hipster Santa' theme, and the cards are the theme with a nod to the brand. Hope that makes sense.

Looking forward to hearing the thoughts of everyone.

Many thanks

[vasta41]

My $0.02:
If you're worried about funding then just release one deck. If you really want to add another deck as a stretch goal. Too many people release too many unnecessary iterations of deck colors.
Your printer is okay (EPCC). Could be better, could be worse.
The artwork looks great, the biggest lure to this project.
The tuck needs work. More color maybe? The logo in the middle has got to go- an "RB" symbol with a crown doesn't do ANYTHING to translate the theme you're going for.
Speaking of the theme, I don't quite get it. But I'll wait to see more artwork before I judge further.

[Harvonsgard]

Your printer is okay (EPCC). Could be better, could be worse.

EPCC Taiwan factory? Could be better? Good one. When It comes to registration, cut and durability of their cards, there is nothing better on the whole market. I personally prefer softer USPC stock over them, but from an objective point of view regarding print and card quality EPCC (Taiwan factory) is SS tier!

EDIT: I just realized the made in PRC on the mock ups, that of course is a different tier regarding quality...

Back on topic...

I'm kinda split on the Santa theme. May I ask for some more back ground, why a hipster santa? I think it would definetly work better if it would be shipped before Christmas. That is a problem that Jackson mentioned, was one of his reasons to create his subscriber program (the shorts) to be able to create seasonal themed decks on time.

[Brightyquid]

My $0.02:
If you're worried about funding then just release one deck. If you really want to add another deck as a stretch goal. Too many people release too many unnecessary iterations of deck colors.
Your printer is okay (EPCC). Could be better, could be worse.
The artwork looks great, the biggest lure to this project.
The tuck needs work. More color maybe? The logo in the middle has got to go- an "RB" symbol with a crown doesn't do ANYTHING to translate the theme you're going for.
Speaking of the theme, I don't quite get it. But I'll wait to see more artwork before I judge further.

Thanks for the honest feedback. The two iterations are purposeful to give additional choice, I personally love black and gold decks, but I have had feedback from people who prefer vibrancy.

The 'Hipster Santa' theme is derived from a series of illustrations I have done as part of my work, they appear as my Joker cards:-

EPCC were the best Price/Quality compromise for 1000 decks, which is my chosen volume.

Additionally, the tuck can always be improved and Id be happy to take on any feedback, but the RB monogram is the logo for my brand 'BrightDesignHouse' ... so isn't really negotiable. But I absolutely take you thoughts on board.

Many thanks again.

[vasta41]

Additionally, the tuck can always be improved and Id be happy to take on any feedback, but the RB monogram is the logo for my brand 'BrightDesignHouse' ... so isn't really negotiable. But I absolutely take you thoughts on board.

Your artwork will most likely win me over even though I don't relate to the theme. But a "tuckist" such as myself (someone who doesn't open decks) likes to display their collection. When people peruse my decks and get to yours they will say, "what the hell is this?" While I don't condone removing your logo I encourage you to shrink and relocate it. The focal point of your tuck should feature your fantastic artwork and convey the "hipster Santa" message.

Take Jackson Robinson for example: he puts his gas-mask king everywhere and it has become very recognizable (largely due to the volume and success of his work) but it's never the focal point of his tucks. In fact it's seldom on the front.

I also love black and gold but I don't think they belong here. Christmas = red + green. You'd be hard pressed to convince people otherwise.

[shermjack]

Your printer is okay (EPCC). Could be better, could be worse.

EPCC Taiwan factory? Could be better? Good one. When It comes to registration, cut and durability of their cards, there is nothing better on the whole market. I personally prefer softer USPC stock over them, but from an objective point of view regarding print and card quality EPCC (Taiwan factory) is SS tier!

Its EPCC China factory if you look at the tuck box

@Brightyquid Not sure what the monogram logo represents (Where does RB fit in with BrightDesignHouse), but as Paul points out, it has nothing to do with the theme of your deck and that alone detracts from the deck itself. You can still use your logo, just not so 'in your face'...most people put them on the bottom of the tuck while the front and back of tuck are reserved for designs that are tied into the deck, ie. more pics of Hipster Santa or something of the like. Though I like the artwork of the cards, the tuck just kills it for me and I wouldn't back just because of that.

Just my two cents.

[vasta41]

Though I like the artwork of the cards, the tuck just kills it for me and I wouldn't back just because of that.

Agree 100%.

[brownsl]

I agree, I do not care for the tuck. The RB on the tuck is a big turnoff. I am not buying the deck because of who the designer is, I am buying it because I like the artwork. With the tuck as shown, I will not be backing.

[Harvonsgard]

ts EPCC China factory if you look at the tuck box

I've seen it afterwards. I did edit my post but you've already pointed out my mistake

[Brightyquid]

Pretty emphatic feedback. I think based on several people’s feedback above it might be advisable to swap the Tatted Gingerbread man and my logo (so it looks more like a NOC or Killer bees deck with a simple character in the centre of the tuck?) and keep the colours to just Red and Gold? I have amended the tuck below, thoughts? (Photo due to server issues)

[Harvonsgard]

An idea that crossed my mind... the third joker artwork (gold embossing could still be applied as a simulated wrapper band, imo) on the tuck box, swap the amplifier with a turntable and you have a vinyl big space to slap your logo on and add a new slice of life scene from hipster santa and the now free third joker. More artwork for the collectors and a bigger logo for the designer... just a random thought.

[Brightyquid]

An idea that crossed my mind... the third joker artwork (gold embossing could still be applied as a simulated wrapper band, imo) on the tuck box, swap the amplifier with a turntable and you have a vinyl big space to slap your logo on and add a new slice of life scene from hipster santa and the now free third joker. More artwork for the collectors and a bigger logo for the designer... just a random thought.

It’s a great idea but I think it would be too garish... I love the minimalism of killer bees. An alternative would be to have an almost blank red tuck with a gold foil gingerbread man dead-centre and logos on the base? Minimalist but on theme.

[vasta41]

I think I speak for most when I say we're not really fond of minimalist decks around here. The gingerbread man is a vast improvement but it still doesn't translate what's inside. NOC decks have nothing inside- regular old playing cards. Your deck will have great artwork inside; so why not display something on the tuck that indicates what's inside? You don't have a minimalist deck theme (thank God) so why design a minimalist tuck?

Like I said, the gingerbread man is a much better starting point. But still needs a little something more IMO.

[Harvonsgard]

It’s a great idea but I think it would be too garish... I love the minimalism of killer bees. An alternative would be to have an almost blank red tuck with a gold foil gingerbread man dead-centre and logos on the base? Minimalist but on theme.

Your deck, your choice. Don't mind me I'm old (not really by age, lol), I like to let my mind flow...
I'll just give you one advice. If you wanna create a deck that is 100 percent you and your idea, MPC is the place to go. If you wanna create a brand and sell decks, you have to cater to a certain audience.

I'm with vasta on this one. Minimalism is hard to pull off. Especially if you're not established as a brand. I for my part love the (in)famous anyone Dot. 99.9% of the people in here will laugh at me for this. But this deck works for me, but in the end it is a dot on a card back, has been done now, hard to sell me this twice. Monogram backs have been done a gazillion times; hard to sell them today, even if they are solid in execution (you saw this with your first try).

[Brightyquid]

I think I speak for most when I say we're not really fond of minimalist decks around here. The gingerbread man is a vast improvement but it still doesn't translate what's inside. NOC decks have nothing inside- regular old playing cards. Your deck will have great artwork inside; so why not display something on the tuck that indicates what's inside? You don't have a minimalist deck theme (thank God) so why design a minimalist tuck?

Like I said, the gingerbread man is a much better starting point. But still needs a little something more IMO.

Again I really appreciate the feedback. People wanting my artwork to appear on the tuck is very encouraging; and I feel that the feedback so far has been extremely helpful. The tuck has now taken a different turn and I really feel that having the tatted Gingerbread man as the main focal point in gold foil; with not too much else around it is the way I’d like to proceed. I have a vision for the deck and I feel that having the joker illustrations on the tuck would entirely change that vision. Rightly or wrongly, my inspiration for my TUCK really is Killer Bees, NOCs and David Blaines Skull and bones. I feel that the card faces offer enough intrigue and draw that a clean, elegant tuck that feeds into the main theme is the way I would like to proceed. However, I appreciate that backers need to agree with my vision so if it is something that potential backers REALLY PRESS for them I would consider it.

As it stands I’m looking at 1000 red card and gold foil tuck, red and metallic gold backs/faces and black numbered seals. (1 of 1000)

[Jocu]

I agree with what's been said.

You're clearly a very talented artist and the artwork for the hipster santa is great, so why not build the whole theme of the deck around it? It's a waste to just have it on the jokers. The box theme is cute but seems unconnected.

People pledge on Kickstarters when they want the product rather than thinking ahead to when they'd receive it, so it could be a great pre-xmas campaign...

[JacksonRobinson]

Looking really good. If you are printing out of China know that after December you will be charged an extra 15% tariff on playing cards.

Jackson

[Eric Lee]

Thanks for taking the time to get our feedback on this. The tuck is definitely better, but perhaps consider putting the Hipster Santa face on the back, instead of the tattoo gun? That'll tease us on what to expect. But I do get what you mean with the minimal style.

Shame you didn't consider customizing or tweaking the courts to add a hipster christmas feel to them. Jody Eklund did a great job with his 1st ever playing card project, the Hipster Deck. (Didn't fund, but he sold the license for it and it got produced by another company. It can still be found on Amazon.)


As for tweaking, take a look at these examples of what I'm getting at for tweaking the courts . JR's Deck the halls was an incredible tribute to ugly sweaters, but of course, you don't need to go that far. Put tats, hipster cuts and facial hair on courts and dress them up in red and green will be even better. Or give the court faces your own distinct RB style like JR did with KWP's courts.

Just my 2 cents. In the end, you need to produce a deck that speaks of your brand and style.

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[Eric Lee]

Looking really good. If you are printing out of China know that after December you will be charged an extra 15% tariff on playing cards.

Jackson

Does the 15% tariff only hit playing cards coming to the US or the rest of the world. Don't think it'll matter for the RotW, but curious to know if US backers will get hit with the 15% if RB sends it out of UK. The package will only say playing cards and it's produced in UK. Will US Customs require you to declare the printer as well?

[Eric Lee]

Sorry to spam this thread, but I just realized no one answered his initial question of when to launch!

Best to ask EPCC on the printing time and work from there. They'll know best on how busy they'll get from August onwards.
Build at least 4-6 weeks additional time for the decks to ship due to Black Friday/Cyber Monday, Singles day (for Asia E-commerce) as you'll be expecting shipment around that time (either to receive or to send).

Factor in the fulfilment time to prepare 1k decks to ship unless EPCC is doing fulfilment for you. (If it's Taiwan it shouldn't get hit with tax. )

This is based on shared experiences from designers here and KS on the issues they faced. Would recommend you checking out the most recent Samedi deck KS update on all the good, bad and learning they faced as a 1st time producer. (I posted the update here as well on the Samedi thread.)

You can try and ask JR directly as he has lots of experience with EPCC and printing cards. (Try both PM and email, he confessed he's poor with email) Also you can reach out and PM directly designers here and see who's able to help you out with EPCC.

[Bradius]

If it is EPCC in PRC, understand that if anything, including packing and shipping, are during Chinese New Year, it is going to be delayed at least another month while EVERYTHING shuts down.

[Brightyquid]

Firstly I'd like to thank everyone who put forward an opinion regarding my 'Hipster Santa' deck, every piece of advice was taken on board and even if it didn't result in a direct amend to the design, I have still taken it on board.

I have been working hard on the redesign and now have a deck that I am completely happy with. I will say upfront that based on some posters feedback this deck MAY NOT be for them; I have resigned myself to that fact and still thank them for their thoughts. Please find a full deck overview; including 55 card faces, one reverse, the numbered seal and the complete tuck case which will be embossed gold foil front and back on 310gsm Red art-card -

Additionally, please find a few mock ups 3D visuals of the deck -

The proposed campaign will be 1000 numbered (hand-signed) decks printed by EPCC - £12 ($15) per deck with free delivery - Fulfilment of rewards in the new year but monopolising on the festive period for promotion.

Taking on board everything that has been said regarding fulfilment I think it’s imperative that I make it very obvious that delivery of the decks to the pledger would definitely be in the new year. The points about Festive postal times, Chinese New Year and general production times are something I previously didn’t give enough consideration to.
I am sending an email to my key contact at EPCC this morning asking all of the questions raised in the thread to nail down a more concrete timescale for delivery to ME in the UK (adding 1 - 2 weeks for me to despatch to pledgers) and to ask about any potential import tax/duty for US customers. I send artwork and books to my customers in the US on a regular basis without any issue, and I can’t see playing cards with a value of $13 being any different.

Providing the feedback isn’t too disheartening I intend on launching the deck before the end of October, to run until mid/end of November. Sampling with EPCC through December/January with campaign updates and photo-sets, fulfilment January - February 2020 depending on shipping time.

Id be open to any further feedback regarding the above and would obviously like to know if anyone on here would be a potential backer should the project move forward.

Many thanks again for everyones input.

Cheers

Rhys

[vasta41]

I still wish there were more to the tuck. But as-is it's not bad. And the pips are nice, too. My biggest criticism is how the art on your jokers doesn't translate to the rest of the deck. In fact, if you take away the jokers it almost becomes an entirely different deck theme. Also, a pet-peeve of mine is when the back-of-tuck doesn't match the back-of-cards, especially in this case where the card backs are very good.

At $15 I will have to think about pledging. But I appreciate you listening and I wish you luck! I'm looking forward to your next deck which I hope will have much more of your original artwork.

[MagikFingerz]

It might not be for everyone, and that's ok, not many decks are. But regardless, I think it has improved a lot since the first iteration, and the way you've engaged with this community speaks volumes to your professionalism. I've enjoyed following this progress, and I'm positive the project will do better when relaunched

[brownsl]

I also am very appreciative of your engagement with the UC community. If the style of the jokers carried over to all the other cards and the tuck I would definitely be buying a good number of the decks but as it is, I am not sure. I think the jokers look absolutely great, the rest just doesn't appeal to me. Again, thanks for letting us be involved!

[Brightyquid]

I still wish there were more to the tuck. But as-is it's not bad. And the pips are nice, too. My biggest criticism is how the art on your jokers doesn't translate to the rest of the deck. In fact, if you take away the jokers it almost becomes an entirely different deck theme. Also, a pet-peeve of mine is when the back-of-tuck doesn't match the back-of-cards, especially in this case where the card backs are very good.

At $15 I will have to think about pledging. But I appreciate you listening and I wish you luck! I'm looking forward to your next deck which I hope will have much more of your original artwork.

Understood, and again; many thanks for your input. I think the deck would look much different without your opinions.

I am not opposed to the rear of the tuck showcasing the rear of the cards and I will certainly bare this in mind for future decks. Depending on the success of this project, and hopefully interest in further decks by BrighDesignHouse, I intend on doing a version based on 'Wonderland'. See my illustrations below.

But thats for future Rhys to fret over haha, right now its Hipster Santa.

[Brightyquid]

I also am very appreciative of your engagement with the UC community. If the style of the jokers carried over to all the other cards and the tuck I would definitely be buying a good number of the decks but as it is, I am not sure. I think the jokers look absolutely great, the rest just doesn't appeal to me. Again, thanks for letting us be involved!

I am appreciative of the input, and as stated I know the final deck may not be to everyones taste, but its a deck I am happy to put my name and my brand too. I had a vision, and with some steering from the community, I have been able to realise it. I am hopeful that people will see the deck for what it is; in my opinion, a usable deck for cardists and magicians, that can also be appreciated by collectors for the illustrations, theme and execution. But even if nobody in the UC community backs, I will definitely continue my involvement and use this forum to test out future projects.

[brownsl]

Wow! I think the Wonderland illustrations are incredible looking! I am not an artist, probably as far from being artistically talented as possible, and I am sure these drawings take a lot of time to do but a whole deck with these sort of illustrations would be absolutely amazing!

[Harvonsgard]

Wow! I think the Wonderland illustrations are incredible looking! I am not an artist, probably as far from being artistically talented as possible, and I am sure these drawings take a lot of time to do but a whole deck with these sort of illustrations would be absolutely amazing!

[Brightyquid]

Wow! I think the Wonderland illustrations are incredible looking! I am not an artist, probably as far from being artistically talented as possible, and I am sure these drawings take a lot of time to do but a whole deck with these sort of illustrations would be absolutely amazing!

Thank you, the 'Wonderland' deck is starting to take shape in my mind and will feature custom illustrated court cards etc... but I would like to keep the tuck similar to the theme laid out by my 'Hipster Santa' deck. I love the idea of a simple, elegant tuck hinting at the intricate artwork within; without being 'in your face'. Thats the feeling I have tried to capture with this first offering.

Again, many will disagree; but I want my decks to have intrigue, 'I wonder what's inside'.

'Wonderland' also depends on the success of Santa, but I am hopeful .