Siren's Deck- OCM playing cards - relaunch soon

[billdragon]

@ randy butterfield
its ok randy. at least i am not the one whom send a fake PR link to tell my backer how amazingly family oriented you are

Second of all, LEAVE Admin mike out of this. I already cleared the issue with him as he told me its not you, and during our conversation, I've came realize admin mike is a very knowledge man, and he did not create this forum for hate speech to occur.

lol,track who? i posted my link and everything about me on there for you, and i pinpointed the problems. There are no curse language or anything offensive on there.

Glad you posted your link, feel free to read it everyone. what, you think i wrote something that's not true? this joke

The person that messaged you is one of my backers whom told me about what you did.

I will not be dealing with your joke here. I had enough today.
surprised you still had the balls to show up after lying to your backers about some non-existense "white gold prismatic foil???" and charge backers
an insane 50 dollars per deck

For your information, my close friend RUNS a printing agency for playing card, there is no such material

This conversation is over

[billdragon]

@ Mike
These are some pretty new unfamiler terms I will need to research on. a playing card from 1400? that sounds really cool.

ok, for white gold stock. As far as I know, Its never been printed with playing card topics. Normally you see it in expensive weddings or invitations.

the concept originated from a papermill called Gruppo papers in Italy. I find this paper when i was at a big papermill here in toronto, and i just fall in love with it the moment when i was holding it. So after that, i bought a pack and I went to almost 40 different print stores asking if they can print it, because the paper requires industrial digital printer to do the job. that's how i got to where i am today.

I think i have a picture of the sample slide on the campaign page that i obtained from the papermill, the name is actually white gold

[flyers3003]

Jian,
So let me get this straight...You're pissed because Randy chose to use White Gold to describe the color of his deck. It's not the name of his deck - that is Grinders - but it is the color variation of his deck. I didn't realize you owned the trademark on White Gold. I guess all jewelry manufacturers have ripped you off too then. And as far as your "faceless" design being so original, I can find several decks, much older than your KS, all with faceless designs. Heck I bet there are even KS campaigns, again older than yours, that have that design. It is very rare to actually invent something that hasn't been done before in art or playing cards, read around the forum and you'll see plenty of claims for and arguments against that (right Mike?!).

Thanks for the laughs, but your attitude, arrogance, clear lack of any research and, quite frankly, pure stupidity has made it an easy decision for me and hopefully many others here to never back one of your decks. You may be a talented artist, but talent clearly isn't everything.

[sms69x]

Clearly this guy don't have a clue of where he came in.
First let me start to say, you choose to be here, you came here deliberately to promote your deck and try to rise funds, there's nothing wrong with that. But coming here you need to be open to criticism to doubts to everything pretty much, and try to take this comments as positives, not being that arrogant and superior (stupid I must say) like you are the one that know everything about printing playing cards (oh btw thank you for clarifying

... its called a printing agency, not a printer.

sure I didn't knew that ).

@ Mike
These are some pretty new unfamiler terms I will need to research on.

Terms and also people, Mr. Randy is possibly one of the simplest and nicest guy outthere in playing card community. If you took just 5 min. to search his work you would know that your claims aganst him are totally unsubstantiated. And after reading your update on the Siren's (first campaign) regarding this it made laught very hard (what people call nowadays rofl).

Now back to the thing that you hold more sacred in this life, the White Gold!! Did you know that back in 2012 Paul Carpenter did and excelent deck (one of my all time favourites) called Aurum White Gold?? Which used a pearl iridescent stock (for the tuck box) giving the same effect you have for your deck.

The first of a series of reflective decks using EPCC Stardust stock /CLASSIC Linen Stock with air cushion finish.

Other thing, you keep calling the stock from EPCC stardust, but as far as I understand the stock is only available for the tuck box, could you please clarify on that?

All in all this pretty much sound as a gimmick or a Dent-de-Lion type of campaingn, you're promised one thing but you end up getting another if anything at all.

Thanks for the laughs, but your attitude, arrogance, clear lack of any research and, quite frankly, pure stupidity has made it an easy decision for me and hopefully many others here to never back one of your decks. You may be a talented artist, but talent clearly isn't everything.

My thoughts exactly

[billdragon]

flyer. only gonna clear 1 thing with you. and i will pm you for the info.

sms, when you are talking about irridescent stock, there are more than 20 selections of it, and each selection contains 20 more colors on top. Pearl white you spoke is a color belong to the family of stardream papers. White gold paper on the other hand belongs to the higher grade cm metallic family.

As for EPCC, no, you got it wrong. its the opposite. tuck require a high level dye to complete the cutting and thus would not be in any specialty stock, normally. But if you special request them. that is a different story. Just for your info, both of my cards and tuck are in specialty stock.

[bamabenz]

Oh, man -- I'm glad I checked UC before backing this bozo.

[PrincessTrouble]

Jian,
So let me get this straight...You're pissed because Randy chose to use White Gold to describe the color of his deck. It's not the name of his deck - that is Grinders - but it is the color variation of his deck. I didn't realize you owned the trademark on White Gold. I guess all jewelry manufacturers have ripped you off too then. And as far as your "faceless" design being so original, I can find several decks, much older than your KS, all with faceless designs. Heck I bet there are even KS campaigns, again older than yours, that have that design. It is very rare to actually invent something that hasn't been done before in art or playing cards, read around the forum and you'll see plenty of claims for and arguments against that (right Mike?!).

Thanks for the laughs, but your attitude, arrogance, clear lack of any research and, quite frankly, pure stupidity has made it an easy decision for me and hopefully many others here to never back one of your decks. You may be a talented artist, but talent clearly isn't everything.

+1 Canceled my pledge.

[Cbkimble]

Agreed. You screwed yourself by attacking Randy. I'm out and I'll try to see your deck doesn't get funded.

[decibelhz]

You're getting pissed cause of PAPER!!! This has got to be a joke right? Sorry Bill but you're the one who is way out of line here and a joke. Your attitude is just plain ugly. Good luck getting anyone here to support you after that unwarranted outburst.

[volantangel]

I've been wondering when the next dramatic thread was going to come up, Guess I'm getting my fix now. But seriously being aggressive as a creator NEVER works out, well but it's been fun!

[sms69x]

Jianhao Cai about 2 hours ago
???
1) brent, adminstrator Mike from united cardist is here too. In fact, he helped me with cross promotion to passione yesterday

So Mike is helping this guy promoting his project even after all the mess and doubts that this guy made here.

I usually take a project for serious after someone that I trust promotes him, so I would like to ask Mike how you got the conclusion to promote this guy's project? Hope you had made some questions before you even consider promoting him, as I said I usually consider a project as trustworth after someone that I trust promote him, and I must add that if the project promoted fails, I usually stop support the creator that promotes it.

[billdragon]

ok, that's it. I've held it in for several days now/

1) sms, if you have a problem with me. you pm me. you don't write on my wall as if you backed my project before and received my product.


2) leave admin mike out of this. I do NOT want anyone else to disturb admin mike's health anymore or effect his sleeping schedule. He helped because we have long made up since page 1 and in private messages, it was a misunderstanding. and you didn't read what i said.

3) I repeat, you have a problem, you pm me. or you quietly pm mike asking what happend. It wasn't even that big of deal, and I dont understand why are you picking fire on this forum right now.

4) if you have a question, you post a question. You dont post stuff that i can't even answer you.

[sms69x]

ok, that's it. I've held it in for several days now/

Oh boy... he can't stand it anymore!!

1) This is not your wall, this is a free space and I will keep posting here, if you're not happy you're more than welcome to leave.

2) Since Mike is someone that we all trust and you are in the opposite end, I would like to hear from him

3) I believe that my concerns maybe in the interest of others, so I'll keep posting them in the open, not by PM

4) -.... Hum ...


Pretty much done with this guy, I posted in a previous post "Good luck", well I really hope you don't get any... You came here because you need people to put their money upfront in order for you to "allegedly" print a deck of cards, but you don't have any respect or consideration for that people, you instead choose to be arrogant and superior, that's not the correct attitude and for sure you'll not see a penny of my money.

[billdragon]

no sms,

I am talking about the post you just made on my ks wall.

your action is really sickenning right now, i dont know why you are trying to ignite more flame here right now. I believe i pmed you personally as well
who are you even?

[Cbkimble]

Poor fella, got his panties in a bunch. He's even got his friends trying to come to his aide. He must've made one he'll of a deal with Mike. That comment is not to degrade Mike in any way. I have respect for mike. Business is business.

[sms69x]

no sms,
I am talking about the post you just made on my ks wall.

What, you must be joking! Post on your KS wall. No I didn't post anything on your KS wall. You should be more careful before trying to make some accusations, now you opened the door...

your action is really sickenning right now, i dont know why you are trying to ignite more flame here right now. I believe i pmed you personally as well

No you didn't PMed me, nor will you, cause you're just trying to rip-off (see you opened the door) people's money, and nothing more, that is sickenning..

who are you even?

You should ask this own question to your self, and if you can sleep after you get the answer, that you should really be a nice guy (Though I would never lend you a cent).

[billdragon]

ok,I apologize and that's fine then. like i said, the person is only being reported to ks staff. if its not you, then you have nothing to worry about.
and honestly, if its not you. stop quoting my things from my project page this fast, how did you even know that this fast, I just posted the comment 2 min ago you know??

"I rip people off? where. " show me proof, literally. now you are getting to some disgusting defamtory here.

you are just about to hit my nerve here. understand that defaming someone with out proof or at least hints is legally considered defamatory to that person and can be sued. I have friends that got hurt from things like this. I suggest you pay a bit more attention when you talk about someone you dont know.

your third answer literally dont make sense. we only made 1 encounter on page 1 where you tried to by pass the answer i provided to you.
I do not know you personally or in real life ok? lol, seriously. do you want to talk about this? i would love to give you my phone number and email.

anyways, if you guys have a question. i will try to answer it. if a hate speech, please hold it. if you have to ask mike about something. please at least wait until he woke up and ate his breakfast.
I DO NOT want anyone to disturb him out of his sleep again over tiny life issues like this, its not like your family is died or some other family emergency.

[flyers3003]

now you are getting to some disgusting defamtory here.

you are just about to hit my nerve here. understand that defaming someone with out proof or at least hints is legally considered defamatory to that person and can be sued. I have friends that got hurt from things like this. I suggest you pay a bit more attention when you talk about someone you dont know.

From the person who just as blindly accused a well respected member of the playing card community for "ripping off" the name of his deck. Hypocrisy at its finest. Maybe when you publicly apologize to Randy for your ignorance, then maybe some of us will lay off.

[Cbkimble]

@billdragon

???
1) brent, adminstrator Mike from united cardist is here too. In fact, he helped me with cross promotion to passione yesterday
2) check out what? the story of how a bunch of radical traditionalist attack an innocent first time creator?
3) understand that what you are doing right now with out proof, is called defamatory. you are not my backer, you don't know me, you have never received my product once. Nor did I ever finish a campaign yet.

I made absolutely no defamatory comments. I simply asked for your backers to read what is going on and to rethink giving you any money. It is my opinion and if I'm the one you're reporting to KS, go ahead. I didn't break any rules.

[Talisman]

This is what "foe" lists are for...
In my whole time here I've never seen so much animosity coming from a "deck artist" for business. I suggest using PMs because this whole situation is ruining your reputation with us and other card creators that read this and collaborate in person during playing card conventions. Whatever I say don't take it personal and if you do well that's what the "foe" list is for.

Edit: One last thing "billdragon", if you feel someone is out of line then use the report tab on the top right and let Mike or a moderator decide from there on who is out of line or not. Will make your life easier.

[Mike Ratledge]

OK, I just got a PM from "poor, defamed" Bill/Zian/whatever.

I made no deal beyond asking that he keep his end of the bargain with Riccardo Conturbia and Teliad "cross promotional" agreement on KS. This guy is beyond reason, above being wrong, and obliviously not capable of making a rational (sane?) decision, so rather than accommodating his request to remove this thread and delete his account, PLEASE - GO RIDE HIM TO HADES ON A RAIL, AND TAR & FEATHER HIM UPON ARRIVAL!

His claim that Randy Butterfield - of all people - had "defamed" (much less lied) about the question of use of what is obliviously Bill/Jiant/whatever's registered trademark on "white gold" and Randy's obviously obscene misuse of his patented technology to produce a "white gold" deck MUST be cause for us all to kick Randy square in the teeth and all run tell our friends to back Siren and all of Bill/Jian/whatever's intellectual property rights reserved only for him, not Paul, nor Randy, nor anyone else. I think I'll get a registered trademark for "rose gold" in ISO categories 11 & 60 (paper products and games) and see how long it lasts, if I am not laughed out of the USP&TO before it is issued.

Carry on, gentlemen, and aim true...

[CBJ]

Billdragon,

For someone that is new to this forum, and new to the playing card community, your attitude and demeanor are way out of line.

If you were trying to be a "big man" by putting down other long time members, it didn't work. I'd like to think we're a tight knit family here (that sometimes disagrees), and when you start attacking one of us... the rest of us are going to stand up and take notice.

There are aspects in your project that raise red flags, and we as a community are here to point out those errors so backers don't get scammed, or buy something that won't end up as advertised.

I for one, will never back any of your projects. You only get respect when you give respect. It has to be earned.

Jay

[billdragon]

1) cbkinile. i reported you to ks, and i held your line written. you did not just try to redirect my backers. you were implying i am doing some kind of maliscious act when you said " see what he really is" that along is enough to get you in to trouble without sufficient proof. I honestly dont even know who you are as well and not sure why you are doing that. but that was a horrible thing you just did for no reason.

2) I never said i am trying to be big or i own the copyright to white gold. But my bottom line is this, if you are going to attack me, dont expect me to be nice. I think I've been nice enough to not be on uc and let you guys go until yesterday cb there decided to reignite this post and write something on my ks page for fun.

3) gun down who? randy? over what, an incidence that you know nothing about 4 month ago in which case my last campaign didn't go and din't matter anyways?

4) what errors? yes, the print. I fixed that, and then what. I received nothing but random hate speech after my last apology comment to admin mike.

5) moderator cb, I did pm everyone. I didn't even bother with this post in the past days. but someone brought it up again on purpose and someone else posted on my comment wall. this is a clear action of trying to ignite unnecessary heat.

[billdragon]

no you know what. I am tired. I have a family issue i need to attend to.
if you have a question. you pm me yea?

and no, I dont have to earn your respect if you are going to attack me. do I make myself clear.

email is billjhcai@outlook.com
phone number is 647 773 0194

I will not be commenting on uc any further. this is is beyond ridiculous.

[flyers3003]

I will not be commenting on uc any further. this is is beyond ridiculous.

[Mike Ratledge]

1) cbkinile. i reported you to ks, and i held your line written. you did not just try to redirect my backers. you were implying i am doing some kind of maliscious act when you said...
Wah, Wah, Wah, Wah, Wah - doing my best Charlie Brown teacher

I was going to openly discuss point by point, but at this point it's obviously a waste of time.

One thing for sure, if you dig a hole, you make it big enough to bury yourself.

Randy Butterfield is one of the most respected artists in the business you're trying to BS your way into.

Anything beyond that is a waste of my time.

Being fairly certain we're all not needing any more tripe (any takers?) I might have mercy and lock this thread, but I won't.

[Conturbia]

Oh......

Well I was not expecting that. I'm sorry and I need to think about it. A bad attitude is never a good thing for a project creator.

[Räpylätassu]

I love the artwork on this. So much that I ignored the red flags. Until now.

I do love the product but I have no faith in the creator. I do hope that these decks will get made but I am not risking my own money for it.

Jian, you just lost a backer that loved your work.

[Mike Ratledge]

I love the artwork on this. So much that I ignored the red flags. Until now.

I do love the product but I have no faith in the creator. I do hope that these decks will get made but I am not risking my own money for it.

Jian, you just lost a backer that loved your work.

You haven't seen half of it - yet. He had my post in defense of Randy Butterfield removed as "hate speach" (s.i.c. - I have the complaint from KS) so both sides of the argument are curiously missing, now. I suppose my attempt at an apology for the fiasco will also be removed? There's nothing in that but facts - we'll see.

Bill/Jian seems to think that throwing sand in the face of our nearly 2000 members from nearly every country around the world when they point out that he's full of tripe (being kind). His bulldog (don't even remember the name) wasted an hour or two typing a TL;DR comment over there, if somebody wants to give me a 2-sentence capsule, I'd appreciate it - I have better things to do.

[jerichoholic]

Wow, seeing all the immature comments from the creator and another backer has caused me to cancel my pledge. Totally ridiculous that they are crapping on all the experts here on the forum.